ASF trio

I bought 1.3 ASFs today. One female is obviously preggers :) Here is a pic.. they are settling in nicely. They don't seem as fearful as untamed rats, and more "ballsy" but not too aggressive.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...es/ASFtrio.jpg

congrats,i'm sure you'll like them.i don't attempt to free hand them,hemos with rubber tips.the only weaned ones i have i pick up but not the breeders.have fun !

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I bought 1.3 ASFs today. One female is obviously preggers :) Here is a pic.. they are settling in nicely. They don't seem as fearful as untamed rats, and more "ballsy" but not too aggressive.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...es/ASFtrio.jpg

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I picked them up very fast by the tail to move them. They are weird little boogers!

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I picked them up very fast by the tail to move them.

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That's the way I do it, but be quick or they'll either climb their own tail to bite you, or spin and potentially break it off.

They're also good jumpers, and will be out of a bin, on to the floor, and gone in an instant if you give them the chance.

They're low-odor, great breeders, and most of my snakes LOVE them. I think you'll be very happy with the large colony you'll find yourself with pretty soon.

I use gloves and have a small ventilated container/carrier always handy when I move ASF's. They will quick as lightning turn and climb their own tail to nip you if they've a mind to. Good luck on your first ASF litter. :)

I don't know if i'm reading this right, but is everybody keeping the male with the females after the babies are born? Are there any problems doing it this way? If so how do you keep the male from mating to early after the female gives birth.


hope this makes sense? :confused:

I believe they thrive when kept in harem breeding, and that the females will kill the male if you try to reintroduce him. (?)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I believe they thrive when kept in harem breeding, and that the females will kill the male if you try to reintroduce him. (?)

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interesting! i might have to pick some of these guys up!

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Originally Posted by reediculous

I don't know if i'm reading this right, but is everybody keeping the male with the females after the babies are born? Are there any problems doing it this way? If so how do you keep the male from mating to early after the female gives birth.


hope this makes sense? :confused:

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No need to remove him he helps raise the babies. Hes as good as dead if you remove him from the females and try to but him back with them.

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Originally Posted by reediculous

I don't know if i'm reading this right, but is everybody keeping the male with the females after the babies are born? Are there any problems doing it this way? If so how do you keep the male from mating to early after the female gives birth.

hope this makes sense? :confused:

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With my regular rats I don't allow the males to stay with the females but with the ASF's everything I've read or been told is to leave them in their family group. From what I've seen in my original trio the females handle the litters communally and the male is a very good parent, often helping with keeping the smaller ones warm and licking them clean while the females are off feeding and resting. The females give birth regularily but seem to regulate both frequency of litters and size of litters so they don't lose condition at all from what I've seen. They are very quick to toss big daddy ASF off them if they don't want to bother with him LOL.

I do find the ASF's really like multiple hides in the large 30 gallon I keep them in, seems to make them more relaxed and less aggressive to have somewhere to stash their babies and retreat into. I also provide multiple small feeding dishes rather than one large one so everyone can easily access food without any crowding or tussles for something to nibble on. The females love to use these same dishes to park babies in (handy dandy ASF baby rat playpens apparently LOL). I actually had one smart mama who emptied out the food dish last month and very neatly delivered her litter into the now empty dish.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

With my regular rats I don't allow the males to stay with the females but with the ASF's everything I've read or been told is to leave them in their family group. From what I've seen in my original trio the females handle the litters communally and the male is a very good parent, often helping with keeping the smaller ones warm and licking them clean while the females are off feeding and resting. The females give birth regularily but seem to regulate both frequency of litters and size of litters so they don't lose condition at all from what I've seen. They are very quick to toss big daddy ASF off them if they don't want to bother with him LOL.

I do find the ASF's really like multiple hides in the large 30 gallon I keep them in, seems to make them more relaxed and less aggressive to have somewhere to stash their babies and retreat into. I also provide multiple small feeding dishes rather than one large one so everyone can easily access food without any crowding or tussles for something to nibble on. The females love to use these same dishes to park babies in (handy dandy ASF baby rat playpens apparently LOL). I actually had one smart mama who emptied out the food dish last month and very neatly delivered her litter into the now empty dish.

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Feeding the same food as regular rats right?

Similar but not the same - no. The regular rats get a dry mix of dog chow, lab block, large flake old fashioned oatmeal (not the quick cook stuff) and various cereals, nuts, etc. The ASF's get kitten kibble instead of dog kibble, lab block (I smash it up a bit...it seems HUGE to me for them LOL), the same oatmeal and wild bird seed mix. The ASF's seem to really enjoy nibbling on the small seeds and so forth in the bird seed mix.

The regular rats eat kitchen scraps once or twice a week, the ASF's don't seem to like that much so instead they get greens offered to them - brocolli, mustard greens, etc., basically whatever is nice and fresh and on sale at the grocery store. :)

For the regular rats I have big pails I pre-mix the dry feed in, for the ASF's I just save my big coffee cans, toss in the dry ingredients, shake a few times and bingo....ASF food ready for daily feeding.

Thanks Jo! They seem pretty easy!

You're welcome. They really are very easy to keep other than the nippy behaviour and you MUST keep them in something they can't chew out of. I've had to chase two escaped ASF's and it is NOT fun LOL (an empty margarine container is my new patent pending ASF catcher!) They are master chewers so any light wire isn't going to last a day around them LOL.

The one thing I do love about them is that they seem to toilet train themselves. Instead of basically pooping and peeing everywhere like my regular rats, they all head to one corner of the enclosure and do most of their business there. Super easy to just scoop out that corner every other day and then do a full tank change once weekly. They do have a slight odor, nothing like mice but different than regular rats - not offensive and I can't describe the scent.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

They do have a slight odor

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after shave! :D

How big are they in comparison to a mouse or regular rat?

Well just for you Jay I went and slapped on the gloves and grabbed Big Momma. She's the larger of the two breeding ASF females I have right now and she is as of tonight 103 grams (she's likely pregnant just not heavily so at the moment).

Here's a picture with a dollar bill for comparison. Sorry for the poor quality of the picture but this is the best I can do with the fast moving little boogerheads LOL.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ereference.jpg

So basically an adult breeder ASF in good body weight is about 2.5 times the weight of an adult mouse I would say. The ones I feed off are less than this size though but I'm not going to try and catch one of those wigglers for a picture or weight LOL.

Thanks everyone. I have a few hidey spots in there (cups and boxes.) I just got home, looked in and the three of them are all in one cup curled up :) Seems like a happy threesome to me.
I do plan on removing the weanlings eventually when iI get them to that stage. Is this wise? I just don't want Dad to be breeding his tween-teen babies, you know?
Their fur looks so soft; I guess I can see why they got their name. if they were larger, I am sure that people would make fur coats out of them. Can you imagine how many you'd need at the size they are at!?

Oh btw Big Momma, my husband just informed me, is the mother of the just born litter so she is 103 grams not preggie. A nice sized female all in all. :)

Jen, we pull the ASF's to a seperate growing out/feeder tank when they are about 5 weeks old (same age I wean my regular rattties at). That way the big breeder tank doesn't get over-run, the breeder male doesn't start after breeding his own offspring and the breeder females don't get funny with their own adult daughters. Seems to work out nicely.

Very informative thread!! I learned slot. I need to grow my rat colonie up so I can get me some bebes!

We have a second ASF colony established with one young male and two young females. So far no babies yet and the male is a bit of a handful. He's been named Psycho Rat. :D

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Oh btw Big Momma, my husband just informed me, is the mother of the just born litter so she is 103 grams not preggie. A nice sized female all in all. :)

Jen, we pull the ASF's to a seperate growing out/feeder tank when they are about 5 weeks old (same age I wean my regular rattties at). That way the big breeder tank doesn't get over-run, the breeder male doesn't start after breeding his own offspring and the breeder females don't get funny with their own adult daughters. Seems to work out nicely.

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Sounds cool :) Aren't they weird creatures though. They really look more mouselike than ratlike to me. I am glad that I got them.. they are adding a little excitement to my feeder room. :)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

We have a second ASF colony established with one young male and two young females. So far no babies yet and the male is a bit of a handful. He's been named Psycho Rat. :D

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Argh, a psycho rat!? I can see this happening.. second colonies.. third ones. This is how I got into "big" rat breeding..

I just cleaned my colony, I have about 20 in 1.3's or 1.4's all in 10gallon tanks...Its been about 2 weeks since I've cleaned them....I want to report..NO SMELL....none! and the pine was dry...if I went 2 weeks with regular rats they would be swimming in urine!


Also I am sick of chewed waterbottles...I wrapped the top of the bottles with aluminum tape...we'll see if it works...but I think it might??

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Oh btw Big Momma, my husband just informed me, is the mother of the just born litter so she is 103 grams not preggie. A nice sized female all in all. :)

Jen, we pull the ASF's to a seperate growing out/feeder tank when they are about 5 weeks old (same age I wean my regular rattties at). That way the big breeder tank doesn't get over-run, the breeder male doesn't start after breeding his own offspring and the breeder females don't get funny with their own adult daughters. Seems to work out nicely.

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At five weeks do they try and rip your fingers off, or are they pretty calm?

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Originally Posted by monk90222

I just cleaned my colony, I have about 20 in 1.3's or 1.4's all in 10gallon tanks...Its been about 2 weeks since I've cleaned them....I want to report..NO SMELL....none! and the pine was dry...if I went 2 weeks with regular rats they would be swimming in urine!


Also I am sick of chewed waterbottles...I wrapped the top of the bottles with aluminum tape...we'll see if it works...but I think it might??

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i wonder why they feel the need to chew the water bottles. I'm sure you have wood in there for them. Maybe they hate the sippers! who knows!

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Originally Posted by monk90222

Also I am sick of chewed waterbottles...I wrapped the top of the bottles with aluminum tape...we'll see if it works...but I think it might??

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Yes they will chew the tape, or at least mine will chew any thing like that and it's likely not particularily good for them.

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Originally Posted by reediculous

At five weeks do they try and rip your fingers off, or are they pretty calm?

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They are bouncy, fly out of your hands, whoohoooo I have no clue gravity works nutty rats.:D However they apparently taste good to the snakes that eat them! LOL Mike does most of the hands on work with the ASF's. He usually put a glove on for the adults if they have young with them (or with Psycho Rat) but he doesn't bother with gloves for the weanlings/feeder ASF's.

hm.. I have a glass water bottle for them now. I actually switched to those for my rats too, because I was sick of coming home to chewed bottles! I give them all stuff to chew too.. and don't let the water run out..

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Originally Posted by reediculous

I'm sure you have wood in there for them.

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I have wood, cardboard, Oat grass and paper towel tubes in there for them to chew on...they chew up all of that and still feel the need to chew the waterbottles....

Is oat grass the same as oat straw? I actually use oat straw as horse bedding (it is not a food product and had the seeds removed for other purposes.) Should I give my ASFS some to chew on?

This is a great thread! I've been considering breeding my feeders (f/t is such a pain, and live from the pet store just isn't cost effective), but living in an apartment I just didn't think I could handle the smell. These sound just like what I need. I don't want them as pets so the biting isn't an issue. Is it easy to get the snakes to switch from regular rats to these guys? About how big compared regular rats are the ones that you feed? Like the size of a weaned rat pup? or a small rat? Thanks!

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Originally Posted by monk90222

Also I am sick of chewed waterbottles...I wrapped the top of the bottles with aluminum tape...we'll see if it works...but I think it might??

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UPDATE: Nope it didn't work....so i went with glass water bottles. $6.99 a pop in the bird section of PetSmart.

I like my glass Crush soda pop bottles way better. $1.25, I get the pop to drink and the spigots from the destroyed water bottles fit perfectly. :)

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Originally Posted by monk90222

Also I am sick of chewed waterbottles...I wrapped the top of the bottles with aluminum tape...we'll see if it works...but I think it might??

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Try these: http://www.petco.com/product/5415/LM...er-Bottle.aspx

They can not chew these.

It seems weird, but my ASFs do not drink that much water. The bottle is not stopped-up, and every day, a little more is gone. But overall, compared to my "normal" ratties, I have filled their bottle only once since Friday! Maybe this is related to them coming from hot, dry Africa?
I added some clean wheat straw (same thing I use for horse bedding) and they made a cute nest with it. They seemed so stark and out-in-the-open on the pellets alone, even with boxes to hide in; this gives them some landscape. And NO smell, save for the slightly woody pellet smell.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I like my glass Crush soda pop bottles way better. $1.25, I get the pop to drink and the spigots from the destroyed water bottles fit perfectly. :)

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Yummy and useful! cant beat that!

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Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

Yummy and useful! cant beat that!

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And a great way to recycle too! :)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I like my glass Crush soda pop bottles way better. $1.25, I get the pop to drink and the spigots from the destroyed water bottles fit perfectly. :)

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Wooooah.. wait a minute. Did you say "pop?" Yay, I am not the only one around who understands this word! I thought that everyone that wasn't from western NY said "soda." Thanks for proving this wrong!
On a side note.. glass pop bottles? I don't see those anymore here :( Maybe the NYers are too violent with broken glass or something?

I thought pop was a midwest thing. I always see the glass pop bottles in Mexican take out restaurants around here, if you're looking for some.

Well, Mexican takeout is good too.. lol
I really took a liking to these evil little rats. I will go in and look into their tank, and the bigger female will just stare at me. If I go to reach for the water bottle to fill, she stands her ground but does not attack. And when I put their food in, they all rush for it like rabid little starving piggies!

Remember Jen, I wasn't born American. Where I'm from it's pop. Until I married Mike and moved to the States, I'd never heard the term soda used other than in cream soda or soda water. :)

Oh! See, where I am from, soda brings to mind baking soda. :) I am glad to know that others use Pop out there in the world.

I have absolutely nothing relevant to say on this topic but I wanted to add that I drink POP not soda. ;) Soda is baking soda to me. :) Plus, I think it's a funny sounding word. lol

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Also I am sick of chewed waterbottles...I wrapped the top of the bottles with aluminum tape...we'll see if it works...but I think it might??

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If you are using the small mouse sized water bottles, a red bull can with the bottom removed and the top opening widened a little bit fits over them perfectly. Otherwise with a quart sized rat bottle a tunafish can with a hole in the middle will slip over the end with the sipper tube and another one without the hole at the top if that is also exposed. I've found that most of the chewing is at either the bottom or top edges so those are the only places you really need to protect.

Mark

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Wooooah.. Wait a minute. Did you say "pop?" Yay, I am not the only one around who understands this word! I thought that everyone that wasn't from western NY said "soda." Thanks for proving this wrong!

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I was in New England a number of years ago and went for a walk around Walden pond. There is a swimming beach there and they had a little store to buy drinks and candy. I asked for a pop and was mercilessly mocked and ridiculed until I asked for a soda instead. :D ;)

They also sell metal bottle hangers/holders with a protective metal guard.. I have one of my remaining plastic bottles in one of those.
Don't worry Mark, we knew what you meant at least!

so arent these what bps eat in the wild?
are they so when you get a wc and thats what you feed em on???

Whats a pop bottle? I think a poping bottle might hurt the rats. Now a coke bottle will do great though!:P

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Oh! See, where I am from, soda brings to mind baking soda. :) I am glad to know that others use Pop out there in the world.

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When I was living in Los Angeles, we used both Pop and Soda.:banana:

Wasn't that the 1950's way to say it? Soda-pop? :D