Feeder Euthanasia the Easy Way, and Humane too...

...and also because the current sticky's link doesn't seem to go to the article that's off-site anymore. I figured I'd post an on-site write up for everyone.

Let's face it...the paintball equipment gas chamber setup is pretty elaborate and possibly expensive. This way uses dry ice in a sealed container and is far simpler. Dry Ice is actually nothing more than the solid form of carbon dioxide, and it becomes CO2 gas through sublimination at room temperature, I think. (maybe Mendel can answer that one)

Disclaimer: Dry Ice is extremely volatile and should only be used by adults or under the supervision of one. You do not need to add water to dry ice to increase the rate of sublimination, doing so can result in explosive boiling of the water. Do not come into direct contact with the dry ice. Use tongs to handle it, and if you need to break it up, make sure it is in a bag so debris doesn't go flying into your eyes. Use common sense.

List of supplies:
- Dry Ice, about 1 lb (depending upon the size of your chamber), readily available at most grocery stores (Kroger in my case)
- a cooler or similar container than can be made air-tight
- A small container, such as a kritter keeper, or something that can be sealed so the rats can't access but gas can flow out)
- Rats!

Step 1 - Get your cooler ready. I put down paper towels to catch anything gross and make cleaning easier.
https://ball-pythons.net/images/diy/RatChamber001.jpg

Step 2 - Put your rats in the cooler. I had 10 medium sized rats.
https://ball-pythons.net/images/diy/RatChamber002.jpg

Step 3 - Break off the right size piece. I had a 5 lb block, and used maybe 1 lb of it. This stuff will freeze your fingers instantly so please use tongs to handle it.
https://ball-pythons.net/images/diy/RatChamber003.jpg

Step 4 - Place it inside some kind of container where the gas can get out but the rats can't get in. This stuff is really cold and I picture a bunch of rats with their tounge frozen to the block (like the kid who licked the ski chair lift, ok nevermind).
https://ball-pythons.net/images/diy/RatChamber004.jpg

Step 5 - Place the container in with the rats, and close the lid.
https://ball-pythons.net/images/diy/RatChamber006.jpg

Step 6 - After about 5 mins, you've got a bunch of clean, humanely euthanized rats, ready for the freezer.
https://ball-pythons.net/images/diy/RatChamber008.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/images/diy/RatChamber009.jpg

Hope that helps!

-Brad

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Let's face it...the paintball equipment gas chamber setup is pretty elaborate and possibly expensive. This way uses dry ice in a sealed container and is far simpler. Dry Ice is actually nothing more than the solid form of carbon dioxide, and it becomes CO2 gas through sublimination at room temperature, I think. (maybe Mendel can answer that one)

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Yes, sublimation is the process in which a solid becomes a gas without going through an intermediary liquid stage. Ha! I beat Mendel to it. :giggle: (me = :nerd: )
Wonderful write up Brad. The pictures are great too. :bow: :sweeet:

is the dry ice able to seep out of the cooler also? if the pressure from the gas is allowed to build up it can blow.

(water bottle bombs baby!!)

The cooler definitely isn't air-tight, but not open enough to let the CO2 out anyway. Per my chem-major girlfriend, CO2 is heavier than oxygen, so as the CO2 collects at the bottom, it pushes the O2 up. It only took about 4 minutes total, the rats were asleep within 2. I don't think enough pressure could build in that period of time anyway.

aaw, i see. good method!

I just think this way works a lot better and simpler than the method in the sticky already here. Who wants to mix vinegar and baking soda in a bag? Then your rodents smell like vinegar. This was was very quick, very clean, and seemed very easy on the rats. They just went sleep and that was it.

Excelent !... Thanks for the VERY useful info !!! I second the photo remark! A visual is always a plus to us "lefties".... :)

Just went outside and had a little fun with the rest of the Dry Ice...put it in a tub of water and you get a cool witches brew! :rockon:

Would putting the dry ice in the cooler before putting the rats in, make a difference?

Awesome and very detailed write up!


I'll get the photos moved so you don't have to use your gallery space if you don't mind it becoming the new de facto sticky.

Excellent write-up Brad and thanks for the pics. I always need to see things myself to totally understand a written explanation.

Great great great!!!
I bookmarked this and I'm sure I'll be using it as time goes on!

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Originally Posted by _BoidFinatic_

Would putting the dry ice in the cooler before putting the rats in, make a difference?

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Yes! Exposure to a high concentration of CO2 can actually be painful and cause respitory distress. If you allow the buildup to gradually increase, it is an anesthetic at low concentrations, and by the time the CO2 builds up to a deadly concentration, the rats are in La-La Land.

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

Awesome and very detailed write up!


I'll get the photos moved so you don't have to use your gallery space if you don't mind it becoming the new de facto sticky.

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Sounds good to me!

Good to go - you can reclaim your gallery space.


Thanks again, man!

Great post on this particular subject! Seeing is believing and I hope every one reading this sticky would follow these guide lines. Good stuff! :gj:

Just letting you know that I've passed on the link to this thread to a few reptile groups that I think may be happy to see this info! :)

wow, that seems so simple. much less complicated than the other methods i've read.

thanks for taking the time and the pics for us all to understand this method better!

:D
aleesha

I only really have 2 things to add. By priming the container with Co2 (adding the dry ice before the prey), you will decrease the amount of time from 2 minutes to 10-20 seconds for them to fall asleep. It will also decrease the amount of time they need to be in there ... mine are normally dead within 2 minutes ... even for 12 lb rabbits.


Rigid plastic like Iris tubs and the kritter keepers crack easily when exposed to cold. For this reason I usually recommend a softer tupperware type container.

Bryan

So if you used tupperware Bryan you'd just melt a ton of holes in it would you to allow the gases to seep out? Quick question about this method is it safe to do inside the house as long as the room is ventilated or is it safer to be done outside?

Yes you would either melt or drill holes. I prefer to use water with dry ice as it speeds up the process considerably. I think I have a post somewhere here about building your own Co2 chamber ... Pretty much identical to what Elevate put in this thread.

http://www.rodentracks.com/DIY_Co2_Chamber_rubb.jpg

Heres the tupperware type that I use. More details can be seen at http://www.rodentracks.com/DIY_Co2_Chamber.html

I do it in the house at times and in the shop. The only real danger is putting your head into the bucket/cooler while the dry ice is actively sublimating (other than burns)

As far as amount of ice if I have everything ready to go I can do 50 rat pups, 50 adult mice, 10 medium rats, 4 large rats, and 2 jumbo rats on a 1/2 lb of dry ice (in water).

Without the water you will need to keep them in an extra amount of time ... One of my friends called me up cause his rabbits were screaming after he Co2'd em. He hadnt put in enough water, causing the dry ice not to sublimate fast enough, and had pulled them out after 4 minutes.

Bryan

Excellent info guys! I think it's important to have this thread and the pics so we can all learn how to safely and humanely euthanize if we need to (whether it's for feeder rodents or just to put a breeder out of it's misery if it's really sick). Thanks again!

More questions as I'm completely clueless about dry ice. When you purchase it and use some of it, can the rest be stored for later use? How do you safely store it and is there any length of time it can be stored before I must be used again? Thanks for putting up with all my questions on this subject. :)

Also a good idea to lay down a few layers of paper towls. Makes clean up easier to do!! lol Great post.

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I only really have 2 things to add. By priming the container with Co2 (adding the dry ice before the prey), you will decrease the amount of time from 2 minutes to 10-20 seconds for them to fall asleep.

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My only reservation with doing that is because with this method, I have no clue how high of a concentration of CO2 will actually be in the chamber when the rats are introduced. Exposing them to even a moderate level of CO2 can cause respitory distress and undermine the whole "humane" thing we're going for here. Speeding up the process with CO2 in bubbling water may further increase the likelihood of "overpriming" the chamber.

To me it just makes more sense to start at zero and gradually increase from there, reducing any margin of error. It surely doesn't hurt them at all to be exposed to a gradual increase in CO2, even if it means being in the chamber for an extra minute or two.

I think you'd run into a problem with scale when you start talking about euthanizing larger animals, though. The page I referenced said that this method wouldn't be appropriate for animals over 8-10lbs.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

More questions as I'm completely clueless about dry ice. When you purchase it and use some of it, can the rest be stored for later use? How do you safely store it and is there any length of time it can be stored before I must be used again? Thanks for putting up with all my questions on this subject. :)

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Anyone have answers to these questions yet?

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Originally Posted by _BoidFinatic_

Anyone have answers to these questions yet?

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http://www.dryiceinfo.com/safe.htm

http://www.frozenontime.com/dryice_safehandling.htm

Hey guys,


This seems like the perfect way to do this with dry ice. I found a web site to buy dry ice and they said you'd lose about 10 lbs a day because it can't be at the right temperature. elevatethis, or to anyone who knows, how do you keep dried ice stored? I was going to buy about 25 lbs to keep for the mice after a few litters are born. But not if I'm going to lose all the dry ice in 3 days lol.

I don't have a clue at all....the grocery store keeps it in a chest freezer....I'm not sure how long that extends the shelf life but I know that dry ice is a whole lot colder than what most freezers could get down to.

Do any grocery stores around you carry it? Walmart might as well.....there's gotta be one of those near you!

I've done this before. And while it is easy to do, it ended up being a very uncessary expense for me. I have not done the research on where to buy Dry Ice down here in Orlando, but in Arkansas, where I used to live there was only one place to buy Dry Ice, Kroger. And they sold me a 10 pound block...

Ok you think that's great...you can just chip off alittle peice and use it today, and save the rest for later. Doesn't work that way...you need a freezer that is cold enough to keep the dry ice from turning into a gas. Our regular freezers will keep an 8 pound block for a few days, at most...

So what was my way of euthanising rats turned into making a crap load of fog and dry ice bombs.

RodentPro, feeding p/k...or live....is just easier..... :twocents:

Hay Nathan Publix supermarkets carry small packs of dry ice

Oh, wow. Good thing I found out about this first. I was just about to buy 25 lbs. Another way to do this is using liquid CO2 pretty much the same way. Has anyone ever done this before? I think you just put the CO2 in a container like the dry ice and it works the same way. Well, this probably has to be the same temp. as dry ice wouldn't you think? Maybe I'll just stick with the gas tanks even though they are much more expensive than dry ice i think.

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Originally Posted by Bdadawg

Without the water you will need to keep them in an extra amount of time ... One of my friends called me up cause his rabbits were screaming after he Co2'd em. He hadnt put in enough water, causing the dry ice not to sublimate fast enough, and had pulled them out after 4 minutes.

Bryan

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Quite the opposite is, in fact, true. He probably added TOO MUCH water, which increased the CO2 levels too quickly. Doing this completely negates the humane qualities of this method.

The idea is to slowly increase the levels of CO2 so it gradually reaches a point where its an anesthetic/depressant, and after the animal is asleep, deadly levels are reached and the animal is dispatched without any pain or awareness of whats going on.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

I've done this before. And while it is easy to do, it ended up being a very uncessary expense for me. I have not done the research on where to buy Dry Ice down here in Orlando, but in Arkansas, where I used to live there was only one place to buy Dry Ice, Kroger. And they sold me a 10 pound block...

Ok you think that's great...you can just chip off alittle peice and use it today, and save the rest for later. Doesn't work that way...you need a freezer that is cold enough to keep the dry ice from turning into a gas. Our regular freezers will keep an 8 pound block for a few days, at most...

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For you yeah, but it works great if you have access to it in small quantities. The Kroger I bought it from let me choose the amount I wanted. I went with about 3 lbs, just to be sure I had enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

So what was my way of euthanising rats turned into making a crap load of fog and dry ice bombs.

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...that was kinda fun too....

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Originally Posted by jwk811

Oh, wow. Good thing I found out about this first. I was just about to buy 25 lbs. Another way to do this is using liquid CO2 pretty much the same way. Has anyone ever done this before? I think you just put the CO2 in a container like the dry ice and it works the same way. Well, this probably has to be the same temp. as dry ice wouldn't you think? Maybe I'll just stick with the gas tanks even though they are much more expensive than dry ice i think.

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Just be careful with the gas tanks and delivery of the gas. Remember the idea here is to increase the concentration of CO2 slowly.

lol I will check with the Publix down here to see what they have. Thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Just be careful with the gas tanks and delivery of the gas. Remember the idea here is to increase the concentration of CO2 slowly.

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I'm going to stick with the paint ball CO2 canisters. Someone told me about them and that they work good like that. I'm decided not to buy a big tank. I think the little paintball tanks will work good, do you think so?

Never tried it....

do the gases escape with the cooler open or do you close the cooler when you do this?

close it.

i have two questions about using this method. first when the process is done is the ice that you put in there gone? and if it is not what do you do with the left over ice?

There's usually a lot of dry ice left over. It only takes a few minutes to euthanize the rats.

You can just leave the leftover dry ice outside, and it will magically disappear (it's just solid CO2), or you can make dry ice bombs, put it in a bucket of water and make fog, all kinds of stupid fun.

first time gasing the rats and i was wondering if in fact they do appear to suffer with you guys.. inside the gas chamber i turned on the gas and the baby rats flipped over on their backs and seemed to be gasping for air.. what was all this about? their mouths like opened all the way... very weird i thought they'd just fall asleep which is actually what the older rats seemed to do..

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Originally Posted by jwk811

first time gasing the rats and i was wondering if in fact they do appear to suffer with you guys.. inside the gas chamber i turned on the gas and the baby rats flipped over on their backs and seemed to be gasping for air.. what was all this about? their mouths like opened all the way... very weird i thought they'd just fall asleep which is actually what the older rats seemed to do..

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I know when i gas they seem to twitch and such, but i think it is alot faster than whacking them. I think one of the reasons that they probably flail more than if you use dry ice, is because gasing is a fast change of O2 to CO2 change, while dry ice is a slower change. I think the rats fall asleep more in the dry ice, than the pass out with gasing. Just what i am thinking on the topic.

~mike

I usually put a little gas in the chamber and keep it like that for a minute before I give them another blast. When they're finally unconscious, I'll open up the valve for a large blast and keep them in their until they stop moving.

CO2 in small doses will act like anesthesia, but in large percentages it can mix with the water in their lungs and form carbonic acid which is not a pleasant experience. I'm not suggesting it, but if you ever take a lung full of pure CO2 you will see how uncomfortable it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jwk811

first time gasing the rats and i was wondering if in fact they do appear to suffer with you guys.. inside the gas chamber i turned on the gas and the baby rats flipped over on their backs and seemed to be gasping for air.. what was all this about? their mouths like opened all the way... very weird i thought they'd just fall asleep which is actually what the older rats seemed to do..

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You increased the concentration of CO2 too rapidly. Again, without some kind of way to regulate the level of CO2 in the chamber (the use of pressurized gas increases the concentration of CO2 VERY rapidly), the rats begin to experience hypoxia before they are anesthetized, and experience respitory distress.

Case in point how using pressurized gas can make this process unreliable.

well, if you do some looking around in some aquarium forums there is a device called a bubble counter that is used in CO2 injection for planted aquariums, and there are a few sites that have plans to make them. That would give you a way to have an idea how much CO2 you're introducing. This link http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/ give the percentages of CO2 that will anestitize the mice and what levels are lethal, but you're on your own figuring out how to determine the volume you're putting in and the dilution and how much air is being forced out of the container and how that affects the concentration and all that fun stuff :P. That link also gives plans for a nice vinegar baking soda chamber that in my opinion is simpler. This post http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...7&page=5&pp=10 has some pictures of the one i made.

i see.. if i just let the co2 into the chamber out of the tank super slow then it wont hurt as bad right? then when they are unconsicous i will blast it so they can die without knowing it?

I used this method tonight and I couldn't have been more pleased with how humane it was. I am very fond of all the rats I produce but they have a purpose. It makes me feel better knowing I took care of things painlessly for them.

dry ice or bottled gas?

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

dry ice or bottled gas?

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Dry ice. I think this thread indicates why it is the right choice unless you can properly regulate CO2.