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  • 06-06-2009, 02:43 PM
    seercirra
    baby ball python, please help.
    i cant believe this. i just wrote a huge piece describing everything. and when i went to post, it said i had signed out. and it lost it.

    wtf!:mad:

    one more time then, godamn it, excuse me for being a little direct, this is gonna be much shorter than the original.

    new snake: ball python, great. gorgeous.

    brought from tropicalfishworld.net.
    although i went to the shop to pick it up.

    this is my first snake, i really want to check everything is ok. the setup, snake itself, etc.

    this setup is what the shop supplied me with. i know you cant always trust shops to know whats best - another reason im here.

    tank is around 35x15x15.

    1.5 inches of bark substrate.

    under BARK (not tank) is a heat mat on left side of tank

    temp of bark above heat mat is around 95degrees.
    i use it at night time. ambient temp around that area is 77-80.

    2 hides around heat mat area. one on it, one to the side.

    water bowl in middle.

    on right side of tank, big nice log hide (but small and compact inside)

    above log, light.

    light = too hot. ( i think) its too hot to touch.
    i have light on during day, heat mat during night. temps directly under light register 110degrees.
    on other side of tank, temps ambient 85degrees with light on.

    humidity = 70% - but decreasing. the moisture from the new bark is being evaporated. im not sure how far the humidity will drop tho.

    snake itself:

    he's 95 gram at 1.5 months old.

    has strike fed, so they say (and ive reason to believe)

    extremely docile and scared.

    he explored tank when i first put him in. i have taken him out a few times in the couple of days since (trying not to any more having read that its better to let them settle in new home). when i put him back in the tank, he doesnt move. staying in a ball for a long while. after that, he may then try to find a hide. and he's been in the one he's in for over 15 hours now.

    - which makes me worried.

    i just want to leave him be now and let him adapt. i had to get him out a few times because, for example, my first temp recording of the bark on top of heat mat was ~100 degree's. which i thought probably too high so i laid some cardboard ontop of the mat, and then replaced the bark, so that the bark temp is about 95 degrees instead.


    basically, please let me know what i can do to make sure he's as happy as possible. im considering partitioning the tank so that he can only occupy half until he is bigger. - he hasnt explored it at all since i first got him in there. but please let me know. i will listen and make the changes i need to.

    thanks alot.
  • 06-06-2009, 03:04 PM
    blackcrystal22
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Ok, I drew this a while back, and if you learn better with pictures this is useful. I can explain things better in picture form too.
    This is a desired Ball Python enclosure for a tank.
    http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...g?t=1244314426


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by seercirra View Post
    i cant believe this. i just wrote a huge piece describing everything. and when i went to post, it said i had signed out. and it lost it.

    wtf!:mad:

    one more time then, godamn it, excuse me for being a little direct, this is gonna be much shorter than the original.

    new snake: ball python, great. gorgeous.

    brought from tropicalfishworld.net.
    although i went to the shop to pick it up.

    this is my first snake, i really want to check everything is ok. the setup, snake itself, etc.

    this setup is what the shop supplied me with. i know you cant always trust shops to know whats best - another reason im here.

    tank is around 35x15x15.

    1.5 inches of bark substrate.

    under BARK (not tank) is a heat mat on left side of tank

    Ok, that's VERY bad.
    Get the UTH outside of the enclosure, inside the tank it can cause DANGEROUS consequences. If water or deification were to hit the mat, then it would short out and heat up to high burning temperatures.
    Quote:

    temp of bark above heat mat is around 95degrees.
    i use it at night time. ambient temp around that area is 77-80.
    You don't need a night-time drop. It should be the same temperature for the day and night for bps. Also, the temperature should be 95F directly on the glass above the UTH. If it's 95 above the substrate, that means it's approximately 100F on the glass which they often burrow down to, and that will burn the snake. You need a proper thermostat because UTHs will get much too hot without anything to control it. Also, get rid of any thermometers or hygrometers that are not digital, and get yourself some that are digital with probes.
    Quote:

    2 hides around heat mat area. one on it, one to the side.

    water bowl in middle.

    on right side of tank, big nice log hide (but small and compact inside)

    above log, light.

    light = too hot. ( i think) its too hot to touch.
    i have light on during day, heat mat during night. temps directly under light register 110degrees.
    on other side of tank, temps ambient 85degrees with light on.

    humidity = 70% - but decreasing. the moisture from the new bark is being evaporated. im not sure how far the humidity will drop tho.
    Ok, put two identical hides in the cage, one on the warm side and one on the cool side. Get rid of the log hide, it is useless.
    I also suggest ridding yourself of that lamp. Ball pythons do not need any sort of light or above temperatures. They will only suck out humidity and cause more problems for the cage and the animal.
    Quote:

    snake itself:

    he's 95 gram at 1.5 months old.

    has strike fed, so they say (and ive reason to believe)

    extremely docile and scared.

    he explored tank when i first put him in. i have taken him out a few times in the couple of days since (trying not to any more having read that its better to let them settle in new home). when i put him back in the tank, he doesnt move. staying in a ball for a long while. after that, he may then try to find a hide. and he's been in the one he's in for over 15 hours now.

    - which makes me worried.
    Ball pythons are constantly hiding. Roaming is extremely stressed behavior. If he is hiding, that is very much of a good thing and means he is doing exactly what he is supposed to do.

    Quote:

    i just want to leave him be now and let him adapt. i had to get him out a few times because, for example, my first temp recording of the bark on top of heat mat was ~100 degree's. which i thought probably too high so i laid some cardboard ontop of the mat, and then replaced the bark, so that the bark temp is about 95 degrees instead.
    Remove that UTH until you get something to control it. It is getting far too hot and will burn your animal (he could easily burrow under the substrate or cardboard and get directly onto the UTH which seems like its reaching 100-110F which is extremely hot.)
    You can get a proper thermostat here, but until then you can get an inexpensive lamp dimmer from a hardware store for the UTH.
    http://www.reptilebasics.com/Thermostats-p-1-c-250.html

    Quote:

    basically, please let me know what i can do to make sure he's as happy as possible. im considering partitioning the tank so that he can only occupy half until he is bigger. - he hasnt explored it at all since i first got him in there. but please let me know. i will listen and make the changes i need to.

    thanks alot.
    I can't really tell how large the tank is.. but I recommend for a baby that small a 10gallon tank. It sounds like that is more of a 20-30 gallon set-up which is very stressful for the hatchling. You could take a picture of the enclosure so we can help further.
  • 06-06-2009, 04:38 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    hi black crystal, thanks dude for your quick reply.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Ok, I drew this a while back, and if you learn better with pictures this is useful. I can explain things better in picture form too.
    This is a desired Ball Python enclosure for a tank.
    http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...g?t=1244314426

    ok, thats pretty cool. mines fairly similar. although whats the problem with log hides?
    this isnt a circular, hollow log i have. its looks more like its from the root mass of the tree. theres basically one small entrance from the ground and another from above. he has hid in it before. do you still think i should get rid of it?


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Ok, that's VERY bad.
    Get the UTH outside of the enclosure, inside the tank it can cause DANGEROUS consequences. If water or deification were to hit the mat, then it would short out and heat up to high burning temperatures.

    ok thanks, i thought so, but wanted to check.
    i tried to get the mat out, but i cant. infact i cant figure out how they got it in there, lol. theres a small hole feeding the wire through, but the hole isnt big enough for the mat O_o.
    actually, thinking again, they mustve just seperated the plug from the wire. ill have a look and see if i can do the same.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    You don't need a night-time drop. It should be the same temperature for the day and night for bps. Also, the temperature should be 95F directly on the glass above the UTH. If it's 95 above the substrate, that means it's approximately 100F on the glass which they often burrow down to, and that will burn the snake. You need a proper thermostat because UTHs will get much too hot without anything to control it. Also, get rid of any thermometers or hygrometers that are not digital, and get yourself some that are digital with probes.

    ok, ive read conflicting advice regarding a night time drop and light cycle. some people say its necessary. some say irrelevant. yours agrees with my logic so ill go along with it.
    maybe i was misleading when i said "tank". i dont know the correct terminology. its basically 5 sides wood and the front side glass. the wood is almost an inch thick. so i guess that wood would absorb more heat than standard glass. and so probably will be safe when placed under the box.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Ok, put two identical hides in the cage, one on the warm side and one on the cool side. Get rid of the log hide, it is useless.
    I also suggest ridding yourself of that lamp. Ball pythons do not need any sort of light or above temperatures. They will only suck out humidity and cause more problems for the cage and the animal.

    because its a big enclosure, ive put three hides in there. do you still think i should get rid of the log? it does offer a good hiding place, not just a hollowed out branch. as for getting rid of the lamp, agree'd. but... the idle air temp with just the heat mat on, is about 77degrees.
    i guess that will drop considerably when the mat is placed under teh enclosure, so would you recommend fitting a low watt fluorescant light too? something like 20w i imagine would stable the temps at mid 80's.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Ball pythons are constantly hiding. Roaming is extremely stressed behavior. If he is hiding, that is very much of a good thing and means he is doing exactly what he is supposed to do.


    ok, so actually, when i handle him and he constantly tries to explore, thats a bad thing? its actually a sign that it is happier if its just curled up? if thats the case then im quite pleased, as he never tried to slip away when i handled him.

    it slithered in my pocket the other day, lol. searching for a dark place. he popped his head out when the rest of his body was inside, and just sat there for ages, looking like the cutest thing youve ever seen - basically until i put him back in the enclosure, lol.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Remove that UTH until you get something to control it. It is getting far too hot and will burn your animal (he could easily burrow under the substrate or cardboard and get directly onto the UTH which seems like its reaching 100-110F which is extremely hot.)
    You can get a proper thermostat here, but until then you can get an inexpensive lamp dimmer from a hardware store for the UTH.
    http://www.reptilebasics.com/Thermostats-p-1-c-250.html

    ok, cool. ill pick up one of those lamp dimmers when i can. in the mean time, ive turned the 'UTH' off, until i get it out of the enclosure, and ive turned the light on. but ive put a cardboard partition up so the snake cant get to the light. the partition will also make him feel more secure, i hope. as his effective new enclosure is about 1.5ft x1 x1.
    i am using a digital thermometer/humidity gauge. - it doesnt have prongs tho.

    thanks again man and any other comments or suggestions from anyone are welcome.

    edit: if its a sign that he is relaxed and happy, when i tried to remove the UTH earlier, i place him atop the enclosure, along with the water bowl while i was moving all the bark. rather than being scared he perused over to the bowl for a drink, lapped some up and then swaggered back to where he was and just waited, while i was working around him.

    is that the behaviour of a happy snake? lol
  • 06-06-2009, 05:00 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    sorry, 1 more question.

    alot of people say snakes are bad at sensing heat. - this is why ive got to have the UTH actually under the enclosure to make sure he doesnt burrow and burn.

    however, the same people encourage me to have a gradient of heat, so that the snake can choose where it wants to be. they also encourage to have a basking spot.

    can anyone else see the contradiction? surely if a snake is capable of choosing the area in which it lays on the basis of the heat of that area, it is also capable of avoiding areas that might be too hot?

    i would really like someone to explain. i know theyre right, and that im missing something. thanks again.
  • 06-06-2009, 05:13 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    also, can camera flashes bother him or hurt his eyes?
    thanks guys. i know it sucks to answer 20 questions but they arent obvious and its all for the good of the snake :)
  • 06-06-2009, 05:44 PM
    blackcrystal22
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Ok, I am not as concerned about your enclosure as I was now.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by seercirra View Post
    hi black crystal, thanks dude for your quick reply.



    ok, thats pretty cool. mines fairly similar. although whats the problem with log hides?
    this isnt a circular, hollow log i have. its looks more like its from the root mass of the tree. theres basically one small entrance from the ground and another from above. he has hid in it before. do you still think i should get rid of it?

    Those type of trunk/stump hides are good. But I suggest placing it in the middle of the cage and two identical hides on opposite ends so that he doesn't have to make as many sacrifices for desires. For example, if his favorite hide was on the cold end but he wanted to be warm he may go to the cold end and sacrifice the heat for the hide he prefers. Having two identical hides helps to eliminate this. The trunk log hide is a good extra hide to have in there though, I see no problem with it.



    Quote:

    ok thanks, i thought so, but wanted to check.
    i tried to get the mat out, but i cant. infact i cant figure out how they got it in there, lol. theres a small hole feeding the wire through, but the hole isnt big enough for the mat O_o.
    actually, thinking again, they mustve just seperated the plug from the wire. ill have a look and see if i can do the same.
    Would you mind taking a picture? I did not realize it was built into the enclosure. Since it was, there may be other steps that need to be taken. Is there a wooden floor on the cage? If not, you may want to invest in a tile slab (plastic or real tile both work) for an easier cleanable base. This way you can seal the tile above the UTH and create a false floor that won't leak onto the UTH and won't be directly heated. I've never done this myself, but I know there are a couple people I can PM about it if you need me to.
    You do need some type of non-soaking floor. A pure wooden floor would just hold bacteria like no other and mold/rot and who knows what else.

    Quote:

    ok, ive read conflicting advice regarding a night time drop and light cycle. some people say its necessary. some say irrelevant. yours agrees with my logic so ill go along with it.
    maybe i was misleading when i said "tank". i dont know the correct terminology. its basically 5 sides wood and the front side glass. the wood is almost an inch thick. so i guess that wood would absorb more heat than standard glass. and so probably will be safe when placed under the box.
    There is a LOT of conflicting advise about there about ball pythons in general. Balls will spend weeks in a burrow only coming out to drink and eat, though usually they eat from their burrow by waiting for food to pass (it is also a good idea to feed in the enclosure as well despite controversial info you may have heard on that, it is less stressful on the snake and ingesting substrate is not a big deal at all). They don't need UV rays of any type like tortoises and many lizards do, so light cycles are not all that important. The normal cycle of you being in the room and the sun shining through a window is fine. The only thing that is recommended, that if you do provide light in the cage (for viewing or a heat boost) then you do need to cycle it by turning it off at night.

    Quote:

    because its a big enclosure, ive put three hides in there. do you still think i should get rid of the log? it does offer a good hiding place, not just a hollowed out branch. as for getting rid of the lamp, agree'd. but... the idle air temp with just the heat mat on, is about 77degrees.
    i guess that will drop considerably when the mat is placed under teh enclosure, so would you recommend fitting a low watt fluorescant light too? something like 20w i imagine would stable the temps at mid 80's.
    Thats alright. You may need to downgrade the enclosure if he isn't eating or is becoming stressed by the space. You could block of part of the cage to do this.
    I have a couple tanks that I have low wattage florescent viewing lights, and they work well but don't really add any heat. If you want to try to add heat to the cage, you can get an extra UTH (that you may not need to plug into a thermostat if the base is thick) and just put that under the enclosure for a bit of added floor heat. I suggest just putting it under the cage and elevating the cage slightly so it's not pressed up on the cage or counter (which would create a fire hazard).
    You can also insulate the sides of the enclosure more, there are multiple insulation methods that we can recommend for you if you'd like to try that.


    Quote:

    ok, so actually, when i handle him and he constantly tries to explore, thats a bad thing? its actually a sign that it is happier if its just curled up? if thats the case then im quite pleased, as he never tried to slip away when i handled him.

    it slithered in my pocket the other day, lol. searching for a dark place. he popped his head out when the rest of his body was inside, and just sat there for ages, looking like the cutest thing youve ever seen - basically until i put him back in the enclosure, lol.
    Handling behaviors can differ from snake to snake. If a snake is severely thrashing and trying to get away, that is stressful, but a little bit of movement is not so bad. Exploration is usually only bad if it's constantly roaming around a cage, in which means they are looking for a more secure place to be.
    Being in a ball while handling is a younger ball python thing. It will get better with age and is completely normal.

    Quote:

    ok, cool. ill pick up one of those lamp dimmers when i can. in the mean time, ive turned the 'UTH' off, until i get it out of the enclosure, and ive turned the light on. but ive put a cardboard partition up so the snake cant get to the light. the partition will also make him feel more secure, i hope. as his effective new enclosure is about 1.5ft x1 x1.
    i am using a digital thermometer/humidity gauge. - it doesnt have prongs tho.

    thanks again man and any other comments or suggestions from anyone are welcome.
    Pick up one or two probe thermometers as well. They are really useful for specific area temperatures and can be used for multiple things. :]

    Quote:

    edit: if its a sign that he is relaxed and happy, when i tried to remove the UTH earlier, i place him atop the enclosure, along with the water bowl while i was moving all the bark. rather than being scared he perused over to the bowl for a drink, lapped some up and then swaggered back to where he was and just waited, while i was working around him.

    is that the behaviour of a happy snake? lol
    As long as he's not constantly out and about, yes, he is a happy snake. :gj:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by seercirra View Post
    sorry, 1 more question.

    alot of people say snakes are bad at sensing heat. - this is why ive got to have the UTH actually under the enclosure to make sure he doesnt burrow and burn.

    however, the same people encourage me to have a gradient of heat, so that the snake can choose where it wants to be. they also encourage to have a basking spot.

    can anyone else see the contradiction? surely if a snake is capable of choosing the area in which it lays on the basis of the heat of that area, it is also capable of avoiding areas that might be too hot?

    i would really like someone to explain. i know theyre right, and that im missing something. thanks again.

    Snakes are not bad at sensing heat itself. Rather, they are bad at moving when the heat gets too hot. They don't recognize that the temperatures can burn them, this is why heat rocks and high temperatures are bad things.
    You do not need a basking spot. Ball pythons won't bask, they will hide constantly and need the belly heat where the hide is. They will not leave the safety of their hides to bask, so basking lights aren't needed.
    You do need a gradient of heat so that the cool side is 80-85F and the warm side is 90-95F. This way, especially during digestion, they will move to their desired area of temperature.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by seercirra View Post
    also, can camera flashes bother him or hurt his eyes?
    thanks guys. i know it sucks to answer 20 questions but they arent obvious and its all for the good of the snake :)


    :rofl: No, don't worry, camera flashing might surprise them a little bit, but it won't hurt their eyes. :D
  • 06-06-2009, 05:45 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    ok bugger it i couldnt help myself :P

    i looked up the previous question online and it seems flashes wont hurt him, so took a couple of snaps.

    let me know what you think :)

    http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4929/86937477.jpg

    http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2391/23557290.jpg
  • 06-06-2009, 05:53 PM
    mrshawt
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    As hard as the urge to handle him is, you need to resist until he's fuly settled in. Another new member recently was talking about how his bp wouldn't stop striking at him even in the tank. He wouldn't stop trying to handle it in the first fews days and it really stressed it out.
  • 06-06-2009, 06:04 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mrshawt View Post
    As hard as the urge to handle him is, you need to resist until he's fuly settled in. Another new member recently was talking about how his bp wouldn't stop striking at him even in the tank. He wouldn't stop trying to handle it in the first fews days and it really stressed it out.

    heh, yeah i know its difficult. and he's back in now for atleast 15-20 hours. he's just so placid though, he actually seems more worried when i move away from him - he tries to latch onto a finger or something. when i put him back into the box he just sits on my hand and looks at me. lol, i have to pick him up and put him in.
    when i have 'handled' him im not active though, ive just let him find a nook or crevice where he feels safe and i leave him be, while i type or something. he just sits there till i put him back..
  • 06-06-2009, 06:38 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Ok, I am not as concerned about your enclosure as I was now.


    Those type of trunk/stump hides are good. But I suggest placing it in the middle of the cage and two identical hides on opposite ends so that he doesn't have to make as many sacrifices for desires. For example, if his favorite hide was on the cold end but he wanted to be warm he may go to the cold end and sacrifice the heat for the hide he prefers. Having two identical hides helps to eliminate this. The trunk log hide is a good extra hide to have in there though, I see no problem with it.

    aight, i made 2 crappy looking hides from a tubular cardboard box i had. one of them ive stuck upto a corner of the box, its quite long but open topped. he likes to both hide inside it and he also climbs to the top and sits there. the other is just a little box which ive stuck a roof on. there isnt really any gradient in temperature any more with the partition there. but ill move the box like one to the other side anyway. i know he likes them both quite alot. theyre from the same original box so theyre both the same, snug fit.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Would you mind taking a picture? I did not realize it was built into the enclosure. Since it was, there may be other steps that need to be taken. Is there a wooden floor on the cage? If not, you may want to invest in a tile slab (plastic or real tile both work) for an easier cleanable base. This way you can seal the tile above the UTH and create a false floor that won't leak onto the UTH and won't be directly heated. I've never done this myself, but I know there are a couple people I can PM about it if you need me to.
    You do need some type of non-soaking floor. A pure wooden floor would just hold bacteria like no other and mold/rot and who knows what else.

    yeh sure, gotta wait on my rechargeable batteries though, theyre awful.my camera only turns on when the batteries are fully charge. and these batteries are nerfed and their "full charge" lasts for about 10 pictures.
    yes, theres a wooden floor to the cage. its all wooden apart from a glass sliding front panel which ive made sure the snake cant open.
    its basically its basically cheap chip board with a smooth, flat veneer. is that ok? i dont *think* it would absorb water.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    There is a LOT of conflicting advise about there about ball pythons in general. Balls will spend weeks in a burrow only coming out to drink and eat, though usually they eat from their burrow by waiting for food to pass (it is also a good idea to feed in the enclosure as well despite controversial info you may have heard on that, it is less stressful on the snake and ingesting substrate is not a big deal at all). They don't need UV rays of any type like tortoises and many lizards do, so light cycles are not all that important. The normal cycle of you being in the room and the sun shining through a window is fine. The only thing that is recommended, that if you do provide light in the cage (for viewing or a heat boost) then you do need to cycle it by turning it off at night.

    cool, thanks for that, yeh i didnt think light cycle would be particularly important, i know they dont need any UV. the light is on in the enclosure but because of the partition, only a little is getting through. it guess its the equivalent to dusk. is constant dusk ok? lol.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Thats alright. You may need to downgrade the enclosure if he isn't eating or is becoming stressed by the space. You could block of part of the cage to do this.
    I have a couple tanks that I have low wattage florescent viewing lights, and they work well but don't really add any heat. If you want to try to add heat to the cage, you can get an extra UTH (that you may not need to plug into a thermostat if the base is thick) and just put that under the enclosure for a bit of added floor heat. I suggest just putting it under the cage and elevating the cage slightly so it's not pressed up on the cage or counter (which would create a fire hazard).
    You can also insulate the sides of the enclosure more, there are multiple insulation methods that we can recommend for you if you'd like to try that.

    ok great, well the night time ambient in the room which the enclosure is in is about 70degrees at the moment, and in the day its rising to 80. so im just making sure that everything goes smoothly for winter really. i already blocked part of the cage :)


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Handling behaviors can differ from snake to snake. If a snake is severely thrashing and trying to get away, that is stressful, but a little bit of movement is not so bad. Exploration is usually only bad if it's constantly roaming around a cage, in which means they are looking for a more secure place to be.
    Being in a ball while handling is a younger ball python thing. It will get better with age and is completely normal.

    ok, thanks. yeah its good to know he wont always be in a ball if he gets handled. thatd be really boring. its really endearing now, though.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Pick up one or two probe thermometers as well. They are really useful for specific area temperatures and can be used for multiple things. :]

    oh? like what? :D lols. maybe were on the same wavelength.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    As long as he's not constantly out and about, yes, he is a happy snake. :gj:

    :) good to know
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Snakes are not bad at sensing heat itself. Rather, they are bad at moving when the heat gets too hot. They don't recognize that the temperatures can burn them, this is why heat rocks and high temperatures are bad things.
    You do not need a basking spot. Ball pythons won't bask, they will hide constantly and need the belly heat where the hide is. They will not leave the safety of their hides to bask, so basking lights aren't needed.
    You do need a gradient of heat so that the cool side is 80-85F and the warm side is 90-95F. This way, especially during digestion, they will move to their desired area of temperature.


    cool, thanks for clearing that up for me. yeah, i never saw the logic in people saying they want a light to bask, especially if you have a heated mat it just seems totally un necessary. ive gotta try and make sure i can get some kind of gradient working... the mat i have is quite large so ill probably place half and half, under the snakes side and the side with the light (although itll be turned off with the mat on)


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    :rofl: No, don't worry, camera flashing might surprise them a little bit, but it won't hurt their eyes. :D

    thanks :p

    lol, cheers buddy
  • 06-06-2009, 08:35 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    ok this is how he's set up now then:

    http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/210/1001648b.jpg
    i WILL get rid of the cardboard, its just handy for the time being. lol :)
    he has a small water bowl in there, behind the second cardboard hide. theres a larger one i was using (ontop) but its too big to fit now.

    the partition isnt fastened in place. if he wants to get around it then he'll be able to whether its fastened or not, so i see no point. but i think it does serve to make his enclosure feel more small, and i cant see why he'd want to get to the other side. theres no place to hide there.

    you can see him sitting on the tall box with his neck around a soup ladle which ive fastened to the back of the box. he can actually fit inside and peek out of the ladle too lol.

    ill get a better thermometer and hygrometer too (and a better position for it). this one is just one that i had laying around, and is temporary.
  • 06-06-2009, 09:07 PM
    the_Ryno
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    You will want to get something to cover up that bulb. A wire/mesh cover would be fine. Ill see if I can find a picture to show you as an example. The risk of not having it covered is that if the snake gets up to it, it will get burned pretty bad given the high temp of the light bulb.
  • 06-06-2009, 09:13 PM
    the_Ryno
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    It wasnt letting me edit my previous post so ill just make a new one.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dr del View Post
    Hi,

    You need to put a gaurd on the bulb to prevent possible accidents.

    I made some out of mesh with a pair of pliers but you can buy professionaly made ones too. :gj:

    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...rtankgaurd.JPG

    Oh and what kind of tape are you using? I would only use low tack painters tape style to avoid accidents with that too.


    dr del

    Post was taken from this thread: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=92957


    Use something like that to cover the bulb.


    I noticed also after my original post that the bulb is on the opposite side of the cage as your snake, but keep this in mind as you open up the cage more ;)
  • 06-06-2009, 09:23 PM
    Montie Python
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    Ok, I drew this a while back, and if you learn better with pictures this is useful. I can explain things better in picture form too.
    This is a desired Ball Python enclosure for a tank.
    http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...g?t=1244314426


    Awesome diagram!

    Kudos!
  • 06-06-2009, 09:30 PM
    Montie Python
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mrshawt View Post
    As hard as the urge to handle him is, you need to resist until he's fuly settled in. Another new member recently was talking about how his bp wouldn't stop striking at him even in the tank. He wouldn't stop trying to handle it in the first fews days and it really stressed it out.

    I think i know who you are speaking of...And I think he gave up....I hope not...:please:
  • 06-06-2009, 09:46 PM
    blackcrystal22
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by seercirra View Post
    ok this is how he's set up now then:

    http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/210/1001648b.jpg
    i WILL get rid of the cardboard, its just handy for the time being. lol :)
    he has a small water bowl in there, behind the second cardboard hide. theres a larger one i was using (ontop) but its too big to fit now.

    the partition isnt fastened in place. if he wants to get around it then he'll be able to whether its fastened or not, so i see no point. but i think it does serve to make his enclosure feel more small, and i cant see why he'd want to get to the other side. theres no place to hide there.

    you can see him sitting on the tall box with his neck around a soup ladle which ive fastened to the back of the box. he can actually fit inside and peek out of the ladle too lol.

    ill get a better thermometer and hygrometer too (and a better position for it). this one is just one that i had laying around, and is temporary.

    If your looking for some good hides you can try these. They work wonderfully for me and don't look too bad.
    http://www.reptilebasics.com/Hide-Boxes-p-1-c-282.html
    You may be able to get away with having the whole enclosure out. If he stops eating, then you can try to make the cage smaller. Definitely get a cage for that lamp though. That is a burn waiting to happen.
    If you also fill the cage up with fake plants making it extremely crowded makes a happy ball python. :gj:
  • 06-06-2009, 10:38 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by the_Ryno View Post
    It wasnt letting me edit my previous post so ill just make a new one.


    Post was taken from this thread: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=92957


    Use something like that to cover the bulb.


    I noticed also after my original post that the bulb is on the opposite side of the cage as your snake, but keep this in mind as you open up the cage more ;)

    hey man, thanks. yeh i know i gotta set one of those up soon. if it helps though, although its hard to tell in the pic, the light is basically in the center, no near any side of the cage so itd be very hard for him to get up there.
  • 06-06-2009, 10:40 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackcrystal22 View Post
    If your looking for some good hides you can try these. They work wonderfully for me and don't look too bad.
    http://www.reptilebasics.com/Hide-Boxes-p-1-c-282.html
    You may be able to get away with having the whole enclosure out. If he stops eating, then you can try to make the cage smaller. Definitely get a cage for that lamp though. That is a burn waiting to happen.
    If you also fill the cage up with fake plants making it extremely crowded makes a happy ball python. :gj:

    hey, thanks but theyre in the US and im in the UK :(

    my local store has plenty though.
    when i got the snake i just wanted to get it home and sorted, ill pop down there next week and see what they got :)
    these hides do look :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: but he does like um, but yeh i wanna get some fake plants and design it all nicely too.
  • 06-06-2009, 10:45 PM
    mrshawt
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by seercirra View Post
    hey man, thanks. yeh i know i gotta set one of those up soon. if it helps though, although its hard to tell in the pic, the light is basically in the center, no near any side of the cage so itd be very hard for him to get up there.

    Oh, trust me, he would find a way.
  • 06-06-2009, 10:58 PM
    Vypyrz
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Here's another link you can use for ideas. Read all the way through the thread because there are alot of "bumps"...

    http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Bal...s/1971927.html

    Also, since you are using a glass enclosure, the ambient daylight and night time are sufficient for a light cycle. It only becomes more important if you are housing them in tubs or getting them ready for breeding...

    Hope this helps...


    Rob
  • 06-06-2009, 11:26 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mrshawt View Post
    Oh, trust me, he would find a way.

    haha yeah i was waiting for that :P
  • 06-06-2009, 11:33 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vypyrz View Post
    Here's another link you can use for ideas. Read all the way through the thread because there are alot of "bumps"...

    http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Bal...s/1971927.html

    Also, since you are using a glass enclosure, the ambient daylight and night time are sufficient for a light cycle. It only becomes more important if you are housing them in tubs or getting them ready for breeding...

    Hope this helps...


    Rob

    cool thanks ill have a read.
    at the moment im using the light for heat as i dont want to use the heat mat as i havnt actually got it under the enclosure yet. im not sure whether or not i should turn it off at night. it would leave the enclosure probably at low 70's.

    is that ok?
    or would it be better to run the light 24/7? remember that the snake cant see the lightly directly because of the partition.

    anyway.

    he moved from his position ontop of my cardboard hide, and for the last few hours he's been sitting ontop of the log :)

    so he hasnt actually 'hid', in quite a while now. i hope thats a good sign. i took some more snaps of him:

    i think he always looks like he's concentrating real hard, lol. trying to figure the meaning of life...

    http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9890/1001651.jpg
    http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8851/1001654.jpg
    rofl@"feel the difference". the box is from a gaming mousemat with some kind of special surface, the box already has a hole in it so you could sample the texture lol. how ironic that know the box is encouraging you to get bitten xD
    http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/828/1001661jrr.jpg
    http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/818/1001666l.jpg

    i like his colour, for a normal ball python i think he has quite alot of yellow in him.:cool:
  • 06-07-2009, 08:29 AM
    Vypyrz
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    when using lights for heat, I will use the red lights. you can use them at night without interferring with the light cycle...


    Rob
  • 06-07-2009, 10:40 AM
    Kaorte
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Him not hiding is a sign of stress.
    Cardboard hides are a good temporary fix, but the ones you have constructed are far from ideal. They like TIGHT dark spaces. I would consider constructing something that the snake barely fits into and has a very low height, maybe 2-3 inches tall.
  • 06-07-2009, 01:45 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kaorte View Post
    Him not hiding is a sign of stress.
    Cardboard hides are a good temporary fix, but the ones you have constructed are far from ideal. They like TIGHT dark spaces. I would consider constructing something that the snake barely fits into and has a very low height, maybe 2-3 inches tall.

    i figured why he was climbing (ontop of the box and ontop of the log). he was just finding the heat. trust me, those hides are a tight fit. they touch him on all sides. im glad he wasnt scared too much to stay in his hide even if he's cold. gotta raise the temperatures a little tho.

    i know its heat because with the heat mat on, he'll happily lay in a hide. when i turn it off, after about half an hour, he'll come and sit on the log or climb a box.

    and yeh man thanks but ive already said that those boxes are temporary, ive only had him for three days.
  • 06-07-2009, 02:00 PM
    Creeptastic
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Those hides dont touch him on top though. Its good you are getting new ones soon :) Gl
  • 06-09-2009, 12:55 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    yeh ive left him be for a couple of days, and both days ive woken up in the morning to catch him exploring his tank, lol.

    he definately looks more comfortable now. i opened up the rest of the tank for him, and put in another couple of cardboard hides :P theres actually 6 hidey holes he has now and theres plenty of hiding spots in between them too. he's just more active, less scared. and he's flicking his tongue about alot more.

    i phoned the store i got him from today and told them that the light was too hot. they said they probably gave me a 40w or something so if i go down tomorrow theyll exchange for a 15 or 25w. i think ill go for the 15.
    ill also have a look at what hides they have there. but, if theyre really overpriced then ill continue to make my own. but ill make them to last, IE not out of cardboard. :)

    he ate last wednesday (the shop said) so tomorrow im going to give it a go and see if he'll take something.. wish me luck, lol :)
  • 06-09-2009, 01:08 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    also, i am pretty confused by the thermostat business.

    let me get this straight:

    the thermostat has a sensor, which i clip on to or otherwise attach to the mat itself? substrate? wood?
    i dial what temperature i would like the mat to be kept at, and the thermostat will... switch the mat off when it gets too hot?
    so does the mat plug into the thermostat then? how does the thermostat cut the mats heat?

    and if you look here:

    http://www.888reptiles.co.uk/product...CategoryID=205

    there are numerous thermostats ranging from £15 to £70.

    how do i know which i want?

    please help, lol. thanks.
  • 06-09-2009, 01:47 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    ok, and ive just gotten around to taking the heat mat out and putting it under the enclosure instead of just under the substrate.

    but i want to know some things.

    should the heat mat be in direct contact with the enclosure?
    should it also be in direct contact with the surface the enclosure is sitting on? (a spare bed...)..
    or, should the enclosure be given little legs so that it isnt in direct contact with the mat?
    or, should i both give the enclosure legs, and stick the mat to the bottom of the enclosure, so the mat has contact with the enclosure but there is space between the mat and bed?

    please let me know and explain. thanks again:confused:
  • 06-09-2009, 05:05 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    ive put the enclosure on little feet, and just put the heat mat on the surface underneath. theres probably about 1.5cm space between the mat and the enclosure.
    is that ok?

    the temperature on the surface of the substrate, above the heated area is about 88f. the air temperature in that area is about 79f. and the air temperature on the other side of the enclosure is perhaps 76f.

    is that okay?
    does he need an air temperature of around 90f on the warm side or is it okay to have around 90 just on the surface of the substrate?

    please, someone let me know.

    thanks guys.
  • 06-09-2009, 05:26 PM
    Kaorte
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    You were right to put the feet on the enclosure. A little air flow under the UTH actually helps it work properly. Just to be clear, a UTH must be used with a thermostat to prevent from cooking your snake.

    You should be taking temps right on the glass under the substrate where the UTH is. Use a thermometer with a probe.

    A hot spot of 92* (surface temp) is sufficient, but you should try to keep your ambient temps above 75* at least. shoot for 80*.
  • 06-09-2009, 05:52 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kaorte View Post
    You were right to put the feet on the enclosure. A little air flow under the UTH actually helps it work properly. Just to be clear, a UTH must be used with a thermostat to prevent from cooking your snake.

    You should be taking temps right on the glass under the substrate where the UTH is. Use a thermometer with a probe.

    A hot spot of 92* (surface temp) is sufficient, but you should try to keep your ambient temps above 75* at least. shoot for 80*.

    hey, thanks for replying.
    there isnt air flow underneath the UTH. the UTH is just sitting on my carpet floor. there is air though between the UTH and the enclosure.
    the enclosure is wooden by the way, so it insulates a little better than glass.
    the temps at the actual base of the enclosure, under the substrate is about 95f, and surface of substrate above heat mat is 88, ambient of 78 or 79. - dropping to 76 or so on the cool side.


    so its all good then now pretty much yeah?

    i will be looking at getting a thermostat but nobody answer my questions about them.
  • 06-10-2009, 12:24 AM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    he didnt eat it.
    he behaved like he was scared of it :(

    im worried if i touched it too many times to check it was warm enough or something.

    any tips?

    unfortunately im only hearing an echo...
  • 06-10-2009, 12:29 AM
    Buttons
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by seercirra View Post
    also, i am pretty confused by the thermostat business.

    let me get this straight:

    the thermostat has a sensor, which i clip on to or otherwise attach to the mat itself? substrate? wood?
    i dial what temperature i would like the mat to be kept at, and the thermostat will... switch the mat off when it gets too hot?
    so does the mat plug into the thermostat then? how does the thermostat cut the mats heat?

    and if you look here:

    http://www.888reptiles.co.uk/product...CategoryID=205

    there are numerous thermostats ranging from £15 to £70.

    how do i know which i want?

    please help, lol. thanks.


    Your heat source plugs into the thermostat. There is a probe that goes under the tank between the tank and the UTH. The thermostat is then set to the temp you want and when it reaches that temp it either turns the electricity off to the heat pad (on/off type of thermostat) or lessens the amount (proportional type thermostat)

    From that link you posted, the B1 (top of the list) would be fine.
  • 06-10-2009, 02:58 AM
    Kaorte
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by seercirra View Post
    hey, thanks for replying.
    there isnt air flow underneath the UTH. the UTH is just sitting on my carpet floor. there is air though between the UTH and the enclosure.
    the enclosure is wooden by the way, so it insulates a little better than glass.
    the temps at the actual base of the enclosure, under the substrate is about 95f, and surface of substrate above heat mat is 88, ambient of 78 or 79. - dropping to 76 or so on the cool side.


    so its all good then now pretty much yeah?

    i will be looking at getting a thermostat but nobody answer my questions about them.

    Yeah, that sounds okay to me. Definitely get a thermostat though for the UTH. I recommend the reptitemp 500R for starters. Especially if you don't have plans to get a bunch of snakes in the near future.

    I don't think touching the rodent will have an impact on whether the snake eats it or not. You could just try leaving it in the enclosure with him overnight and see if he eats it.
  • 06-16-2009, 03:55 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Buttons View Post
    Your heat source plugs into the thermostat. There is a probe that goes under the tank between the tank and the UTH. The thermostat is then set to the temp you want and when it reaches that temp it either turns the electricity off to the heat pad (on/off type of thermostat) or lessens the amount (proportional type thermostat)

    From that link you posted, the B1 (top of the list) would be fine.

    yayy. :D he ate, he's eating now.
    i got a thermostat, just a cheap one which arrived through the post today, its a "habistat, mat-stat".

    and thanks kaorte too, for that information :)

    i need to drill a hole through the box so i can put a sensor in. and i was going to do it today, after i tried feeding him again (i last tried on friday, i havnt really handled him since the first time he refused to eat.). so yeh i was dangling the damn mice around the entrance of the hide, and there was no reaction. i couldnt even see him in there, so i dangled it infront of another hide too, lol. in the end i gently pulled the warm hide up and saw him in it. dangle, dangle, dangle, no response...
    so, i left it there and went about drilling a small hole in the box (not with a drill, just grinding through thin mdf with scissors. lol, quietly)
    and i notice the snake pop out and see whats going on. he takes a sniff in the other hide and goes back into his own, completely missing the mouse. so i put the mouse about an inch inside his own hide, and carry on working.
    and then out of the corner of my eye i see the mouse slowly moving back into the darkness. lol. i check and see he's dragging it in.

    1 thing im slightly worried about though.
    i defrosted the mouse by putting it in a water proof bag and leaving it in hot water. im a bit worried it could have slightly cooked the mouse as i left it there for quite a while. if the mouse is slightly cooked, will it harm the snake?

    thanks alot everyone :)
  • 06-20-2009, 07:28 AM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    ok no response, nevermind, but perhaps someone can help me with this? :)

    i would like to raise the ambient temperature by just a couple of F. as the ambient is about 75 right now. although the UTH is quite big and covers nearly half of his active area, and i have it set to 88-90. i just think itd be nicer for him if the ambient was a bit higher..

    how might i do this?
    all the "reptile" ones all like 150w.

    i dont want to have to get a 150w bulb and then another thermostat to control it :(

    can i not buy a very cheap red florescant bulb (or black bulbs)? something like these?
    http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/pro...my-15w-bc-red/
    http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/pro...er-18w-bc-red/
    http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/pro...t-25w-ses-red/

    i just want a cheap bulb which i can use 24/7 to increase the temperature just a couple of F. if a day is particularly hot then ill just turn it off.

    any suggestions? thanks
    edit, it doesnt have to be a bulb. it just needs to raise ambient by a couple of F. cheers
  • 06-20-2009, 07:34 AM
    Kaorte
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Check your local petstore for night-time friendly bulbs. They usually cary low wattage "moonlight" bulb or redlight bulbs.

    Keep in mind that getting a light will also lower your humidity significantly.

    I would raise your UTH to about 92* though.
  • 06-20-2009, 09:02 AM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kaorte View Post
    Check your local petstore for night-time friendly bulbs. They usually cary low wattage "moonlight" bulb or redlight bulbs.

    Keep in mind that getting a light will also lower your humidity significantly.

    I would raise your UTH to about 92* though.

    cool. thanks for that. now i know what to google, i found some :)
    raised the temp of that UTH little too. cheers:gj:
  • 06-20-2009, 12:09 PM
    mrshawt
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    I insulate the tank with a product called Reflectix - it's like bubble wrap covered in foil. It's works great! I put it on the back and sides of my tank, as well as the walls behind it. Since we don't believe in stable temperatures in my house, it's helped a lot to control my ambient temperatures. I also cut a sheet of 1/8" Plexiglas and stuck it to the front of the tank using blue tack.
  • 06-21-2009, 01:20 PM
    seercirra
    Re: baby ball python, please help.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mrshawt View Post
    I insulate the tank with a product called Reflectix - it's like bubble wrap covered in foil. It's works great! I put it on the back and sides of my tank, as well as the walls behind it. Since we don't believe in stable temperatures in my house, it's helped a lot to control my ambient temperatures. I also cut a sheet of 1/8" Plexiglas and stuck it to the front of the tank using blue tack.

    i see, yeah i may have to do something like that to prepare for winter. but the enclose is wooden so i hope not too much.

    my snake has an awsome feeding response :D
    he's a nutter!

    he's been veery laid back and docile and happy, hopefully, lately. since he knows he can eat safely. he hasnt been rubbing his nose on the glass at all, or anything like that. i was handling him earlier for quite a while watching some southpark episodes. and i observed he had made a makeshift hide (after some exploring) between my hand and the edge of a duvet. i got up and pulled the duvet over him a little so he wouldnt find somewhere new to hide. defrosted a little pinky (i know, too small, but im lumbered with them for now). and offered it to him on some cardboard. he came right out and ate in the open. keeping the pinky neatly on the cardboard while i watched southpark about a foot away from him.

    and then 5 minutes ago i was just checking the temperature of his warm hide - but as soon as he hears the glass front panel slide open he rushes out of his hide like a shot and looked MEAAAAAN! ready to strike and tongue flicking wildly. it shocked me. i waved my hand so he could see i wasnt prey and he was tracing me. lol, but he soon retreated into his hide as quickly as he came out.
    ive noticed this other times too. all ive got to do is rustle some of his substrate and he comes straight out to investigate :rolleyes:
    im so pleased with him:D

    lol, and a couple of days ago i was feeding him another tiny pinky, just holding it above the entrance to his hide. and he went for it with such gusto, he totally missed the mouse, infact totally missed the hide entrance. and clattered into an inside wall of the hide xD
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