Ibd

[Shadowspider]

Wow!
So I guess one bottom line for snake keepers would be to just keep different genera in different areas and use separate husbandry tools....to be on the safe side all the way around?

[Mendel's Balls]

Also quarintine any new animal from your python collection, boa collection, corn snake collection, etc for awhile....I'm not sure how long exactly....maybe someone else can chime in on that. I'd have to say at least 30-60 days.

[recycling goddess]

but... i've heard that IBD is an airborne virus... so keeping them in the same house isn't good enough. you need to have them in another building!

so i guess what i want to know here... from someone with a LOT of experience... is - are we overreacting (kinda like thinking someone is poisening our kids halloween candy) or are we being realistic (like kids being abducted from outside their own home)?

in other words... on a scale of one to ten... one being pretty much 'none existant' and the being "very very likely' - what is the chances of this being a real concern?

[Mendel's Balls]

but... i've heard that IBD is an airborne virus... so keeping them in the same house isn't good enough. you need to have them in another building!

Or a building with seperate ventilation for each species/collection room.

I wouldnt worry about it too much with cornsnakes...One report isnt enough to probably to warrant large scale changes in husbandry, in my opinion.

Still I think it highlights how much even those with a LOT of experience really dont know.

[Ginevive]

I too have been leary of this disease. I have had my boa for about two years now, and it still frightens me to think of IBD.. quite honestly, I never plan on getting another boa, since I guess that in having him for this many years, I feel that he is healthy; but there being no tests I have seen that can be done on the live snake, that isn't an option..
I definately go out of my way to not let anything that has contacted my boa, touch my BPs; being a virus, am I correct in assuming that it cannot be airborne (as bacteria can) and therefore can't infect through non-contact of bodily fluids, or touching an item that had touched the infected snake?
At any rate, I will and have never let my boa come into any physical contact with my BPs; and I go so far as to take a shower after handling my friends' boas, before even going into the room my BPs are in; I have worked too hard on getting these snakes, and invested too much money, to play around; they are not toys. And I am not a germaphobe; I will eat a sandwich and set it down right on a bale of hay out in the barn; I think I became immune to salmonella years ago, lol. But when it could hurt my animals..

[Shelby]

I use the same tongs to feed everyone... as I had no idea it was a problem... so... even though I've only had them each for less than a year... I should be okay?

(thanks April)

I would say yes.. especially since feeding tongs often get saliva from the snakes on them, and saliva is a perfect way to spread diseases.

That is interesting, Mendel (sorry don't know your real name. ) but I have never heard of a case of confirmed IBD in any colubrid.

The question now is.. is IBD airborne or not?

[iceman25]

From the Merck Veterinary Manual online:

Inclusion Body Disease (IBD) of Boid Snakes:
Boa constrictors and several species of pythons are most commonly affected by IBD. Boas are considered to be the normal host for this retrovirus because so many (up to 50% of those tested) are infected and they can harbor the virus for years without symptoms. Early symptoms, possibly precipitated by any factor causing immune suppression, include a history of unthriftiness, anorexia, weight loss, secondary bacterial infections, poor wound healing, dermal necrosis, and regurgitation. In essence, IBD should be considered in every sick boa.

Typical findings in the acute phase of the disease include leukocytosis and a normal chemistry panel. As the disease progresses, white cell counts tend to decline to subnormal levels. Blood chemistry results are variable depending on how debilitated and dehydrated the boa becomes, but organ damage may appear. As the disease becomes chronic, some boas will exhibit neurologic symptoms ranging from mild facial tics and abnormal tongue flicking to failure of the snake to right itself when placed in dorsal recumbency and severe seizures.

Pythons are thought to be an abnormal host to the IBD retrovirus because the course of disease is more acute and neurologic symptoms more profound. In most pythons the acute symptoms that boas exhibit will be missed, and they will be presented with severe neurologic disease. While the active disease can linger for months or more in boas, most pythons die within days or weeks of the onset of clinical signs.

Exposure to this retrovirus appears to be due to a transfer of body fluids. Breeding, fight wounds, and fecal/oral contamination are common ways of transfer. Casual handling of an infected specimen and then a normal specimen does not appear to create enough viral exposure to cause infection. However, any immunocompromised reptile may be susceptible under the right circumstances. The snake mite is assumed to be responsible for the spread of the virus in large, well-maintained collections.

A tentative diagnosis is based on the history and clinical signs. Blood work will vary depending on the stage of the disease, but few diseases in snakes will cause such elevated white cell counts in the early stages. On blood smears, inclusion bodies are frequently found in the cytoplasm of leukocytes. One strain (3 strains have been isolated) of the virus frequently produces inclusion bodies in the cytoplasm of erythrocytes. The inclusion bodies are highly suggestive, but not 100% reliable. A definitive diagnosis is obtained via biopsy of internal tissues in which the characteristic inclusion bodies are found, eg, the liver, kidney, esophageal tonsils, and stomach. An ELISA is being developed.

IBD is not curable, and many clients may choose euthanasia. However, individuals may elect to isolate their snakes and treat with supportive and palliative measures. It is essential to educate clients not to sell infected specimens or their offspring, as this has caused the disease to spread worldwide.

Here is the direct link: Merk Veterinary Manual IBD link.

[Shelby]

Very interesting.. especially that up to 50% carry it.. huh.

Seems like it is not airborne.

[SatanicIntention]

*hugs the Merck Manual* I love that book!

I have a 3 year old, 2.5ft male boa that was housed with a 3 year old 2.5ft male Ball Python for the entire duration of their lives(well, 3 years and now are separated and obviously so much less stressed, as the Ball ate 2 days after being here and about ate my face off, haha). So anyway, on to the basic point. This boa clearly didn't carry IBD or any other disease, same goes for the Ball Python. They are both very healthy other than being small, and the boa is a bit on the thin side.

I think the main point of this thread is to buy from the best possible breeder you can find, who is well-respected and has a great(and spotless) reputation. It would also help to talk with others who have animals from that specific breeder, asking about the health of the animal(s), growth rate, temperment, etc.

So anywho... Not every Boa you buy from a Pet Store is going to carry the plague(IBD) and not every Boa you get from a "breeder" is going to remain healthy. Just do ya research and be confident in who you buy from!

[recycling goddess]

so... it's too late. i already have drake in my collection. if you remember... when i got drake from a respected breeder in my area he came with mites. then i found out he was a cross instead of pure as i had made clear to the breeder in emails, over the phone and in person that i only wanted a 100% pure hog island.

he houses all his snakes in the same building. even held the hog islands and then walked over and picked up his new bumble bee ball to show us.

later, when i confronted him with the confirmation from this site and from another that drake was not pure, but in fact a cross... he admited that he purchased drake and didn't really know what he was.

so... my longwinded point here is this: IMO, with what i know now... i did not get him from a respected breeder!

i purchased some Provent A Mite (PAM) and treated my entire collection.

when i purchased sabrina... rtb - she also came with mites. used PAM on her and she became mite free.

so... although i 'thought' i was getting them from respected, good, healthy places... i was wrong. so now... on the eve of my CITES going through and adam sending me my 4 new morphs... i think it's important for me to find new homes for my two boas.

i hate to do it cause i really love them... but i can't take a chance. i'm glad i got this info before anything happened instead of after it was too late.