Kiss your hobby goodbye!!!! USFW Proposed ban!!!!

[greenmonkey51]

I hope that the import portion of this policy passes. There is no reason to keep bringing in any wild caught snakes when there is already good size breeding pools here. I bet you solve a lot of care problems in stores fast when they can't buy wild caught or captive hatching balls for 5$-10$. Petco would stop selling ball pythons quick.

[CeraDigital]

I hope that the import portion of this policy passes. There is no reason to keep bringing in any wild caught snakes when there is already good size breeding pools here. I bet you solve a lot of care problems in stores fast when they can't buy wild caught or captive hatching balls for 5$-10$. Petco would stop selling ball pythons quick.

How would this be justifiable when many species, as well as sub-species, are not established in captivity yet? Sure it "could" solve the problem with captive hatched Ball Pythons, and other species, winding up in pet stores; but it hurts many more causes. Take the Southern African Rock, and Boelens Python for instance...

[Shelby]

The boelen's python would not be affected.. it's Morelia.

I don't think they should restrict importation either though.. lots of our morphs come from Africa! It doesn't address the issue they're trying to solve here either.

[lillyorchid]

I'd like to just address that EVERYONE who owns any kind of herp really needs to write in!!!

Today I faced off with a group of "snake lovers" who didn't own any kind of boa or python. When I brought this subject to their attention, there reaction was pretty much "oh well doesn't hurt us at all or our snakes...". I was so shocked! I told them if this gets passed, don't be surprised if your snakes are the next to be banned from being imported, sold, etc. Once they start calling you a criminal for wanting to privately own one type of animal, it's not long before they're going to move onto another. And then another and then another.

I could write a book about how unjust I feel most restrictive animal laws are, but to sum it up; I don't see how the government has a right to tell you what you can and cannot own in the privacy of your own home.

"I can see the day coming when even your home garden is gonna be against the law."
- Bob Dylan, 1983

Me too, Bob, me too.

[Jay_Bunny]

I do not believe there should be a ban on ANY snake or import bans. It is true that some of our most beautiful morphs of ball python come from Africa and if there was to be an import ban, then we would never get to see what awsome snakes there could have been. I want to breed ball pythons and this will affect me greatly if it goes into effect. I have not commented yet but I will write something up tomorrow (I take my time writing something up because I want it to sound like I know what I'm talking about) and send it in. I will also talk to my family and friends about writing something up.

[BulldogBalls]

Seneschal - I LOVE your letter. I hope you don't mind but I edited and added to it for my own letters.. is this OK? You made excellent points and I couldn't have said it better, I just added a bit. Here it is:

To whom it may concern,
I am writing in response to the recent proposed bill regarding the Injurious Wildlife Species; Review of Information Concerning Constrictor Snakes From Python, Boa, and Eunectes genera. I am highly concerned about the repercussions this bill will cause should it be passed. In addition to stifling the entrepreneurial nature of Americans with an interest in the reptiles addressed by the bill and thus causing the Unites States federal government to lose out on all of the sales and transportation taxes that are currently gained and will be in the future (assuming that the bill does not pas) it will also cause a great economical recession in multiple economies. Not only will import and export tariffs from the hundreds of thousands of imported and exported animals each year be lost, so too will the jobs of thousands of people both in our country and in Africa and South America. We will loose, in effect, an entire economy. The export and import of these animals is a major source of income for many people, and many businesses would go out of business without the ability to import and export these animals either within or without the United States. Additionally many businesses which breed in the United States and sell in the United States almost exclusively, but ship the animals out of state to make more sales, would suffer an enormous cut in profits, and would end up going out of business as well, possibly costing the federal government more money in social security and unemployment, and most certainly losing a great deal of money injected directly into the economy and stimulating it.

Not only are hobbyists and breeders and importers affected, so too will all retail stores featuring reptiles and reptile care equipment. When breeders are no longer able to transport between states, pet stores will no longer be able to carry many of the common species of python and boas and eunectes, because they will not be able to purchase the animals. Because they will not be able to sell the animals, many might cease to carry and sell much of the reptile based merchandise such as bedding, tanks, screen enclosures, heating elements, heat lamps, feeder rodents, heat cord, heat tape, flexwatt, mite treatment chemicals, cleaning chemicals, snake water bowls, misting equipment, humidifiers, thermometers, hygrometers, proportional thermostats, rack systems, tubs, rodent cages, rodent bedding, rodent water bottles, wooden climbing logs, snake hides, half-log hides, heat bulbs, electronic heat emitters, etc. Which make up a startlingly large portion of money directly injected into the pet economy. Because of the sudden, widespread, and drastic drop in sales, many companies which design and manufacture these products will go out of business or file for bankruptcy, and widespread downsizing will result in enormous job losses. These workers will have to search for more work in an economy already in recess, and will be spending less money themselves, further exacerbating the recent rise in home mortgages falling through as people are unable to make payments, causing interest rates to rise higher and for it to be more difficult for people to secure loans. Because there will not be a new economy to replace the old one centering around reptiles and the things necessary to keep them, these workers, business owners, breeders, and importers will most likely not be able to find a job very easily, furthering the rise in unemployment rates.

This law would also negatively affect the economy of various cities in the United States that rely in part on business generated from reptile shows and expos across the country. The reptile and herpetological society has a large impact on the community and these animals are gaining in popularity as pets as more breeders provide captive bred, socialized animals of rare color. The cost for some of these animals of rare colors, called "morphs" can be tremendous, they are worth a lot of money due to the difficulty and knowledge required in producing, raising, and maintaining them. Some of these animals can and do regularly cost and are purchased at prices exceeding ten, fifteen, and twenty thousand dollars. These are prized animals produced by experienced, responsible, and knowlegable breeders whose lives depend and revolve around these species and this community. Not to mention what it would cost to implement and enforce this law. I cannot begin to comprehend the expense, it would be tremendous, unneccessary, unwarranted, and ineffective.

There are very few species that get large enough to cause concern for human or other animal safety. Ball Pythons (Python Regius) Blood Pythons (Python Curtus Brongersmai, Python Curtus Breitensteini, Python Curtus Curtus) among others, along with most Boa species and types do not get large enough to kill or seriously harm a human. Most of these species do not get larger than eight feet in total length at adulthood. Ball Pythons rarely exceed five feet in length and are extremely popular as pets.

Reticulated Pythons(Python Reticulatus), the Anaconda species (Eunectes murinus, Eunectes notaeus, Eunectes Beniensis, Eunectes Deschauenseei), African Rock Python species (Python Sebae Sebae, Python Sebae Natalensis) Indian Python Species (Python Molurus) including the most popular large snake the Burmese Python (Python Molurus Bivittatus) and others that do get over twelve or fifteen feet on average and that can reach extreme lengths of twenty feet or more, should be regulated not only for the safety of the humans involved but for the good of the snakes as well. I do not believe that banning these animals will be effective or appropriate.

Most snakes not indigenous to the lower forty-eight states are incapable of surviving in the wild. Snakes require warm temperatures and humidity. My home state of Oregon would not sustain a wild population of large constricting species not indigenous to this area. The winters are too cold and the summers are too dry. Most of the states in the United States do not have climates that are conducive to the survival of these animals in the wild, either of the adults or of eggs resulting from escaped breeding age animals.

On the other hand, rather than banning the import, export, and trade of these animals, I would suggest that you seek to broaden the recent laws passed in Florida which require permits for keeping, breeding, and selling certain species. I will not deny that it is a problem when irresponsible owners release their animals into the wild. However, we in the herpetological community do not condone such behavior or keeping practices, and we do not engage in irresponsible ownership. We do our best to teach new reptile owners proper ways to care for and keep their pets in such a way that they will not escape nor overwhelm their owners with their size. We do not affiliate ourselves with the irresponsible few who are doing such things. We as a community feel that this law should not be passed. We as a community are eager to search for and find a better way than this, a way which will make everyone happy and which will result in a more educated public, fewer loose animals, a more stable and enriched economy, and no bans on our hobbies, our businesses, our passions, and our pets. Americans are better than this ban that’s being imposed, and moreover, all of us in the herpetological community want to strive to be better, for ourselves and for the sake of the animals.

I will say please let me know if I got any info wrong, I am not terribly schooled on most species that would be effected by this but did try to do some info seeking on those animals I know little about to determine average adult sizes and what not. I included a small list of specific species for affect though I know I did not include everything, I got tired of all the latin but let me know if I got anything wrong or should include other animals etc. This is my rough draft of Seneschals rough draft.

[Desert]

I hope that the import portion of this policy passes. There is no reason to keep bringing in any wild caught snakes when there is already good size breeding pools here. I bet you solve a lot of care problems in stores fast when they can't buy wild caught or captive hatching balls for 5$-10$. Petco would stop selling ball pythons quick.

Agreed. Too bad they wouldn't also stop the cheap throw-away Russian tortoises brought in by the thousands every year.

[Desert]

I don't quite understand how ball pythons have been lumped into this.

They really aren't lumped into this. It appears that way, but upon careful reading in the Federal Register, they state they are looking at species within these genera, not all species within those genera. Thus my opinion is the little guys are/will be excluded.

What grounds to they have to say that ball pythons, and other small pythons/boas are a threat to the environment?

Looking at the Burmese python issue, it appears rather arbitrary as to what species make it onto the Injurious Wildlife list and which don't. For example, Xenopus laevis. Those are established in several warm freshwater areas. They are clearly harmful to native wildlife. Like Burmese pythons, however, they cannot survive winters in most of the USA. Yet X. laevis is not on the Injurious Wildlife list.

[Chuck]

Here is a letter from A guy named Ben Team it is well written and covers the good talking points on this issue. I am of the schools of thought that this is what should be put forward to USFW.

To Whom It May Concern:

It has recently come to my attention that the USFW is considering adding snakes of the genera Python, Eunectes, and Boa to the list of injurious species and as such prohibiting their importation and inter-state commerce under the Lacey Act. This will affect the interstate commerce of between 20-25 species (depending on the taxonomic authority) of reptile that are commonly propagated in the United States for the pet trade. The addition of these species to the injurious species list is not warranted, and to do so would be a mistake both politically and economically.

The goal to protect our natural ecosystems and the wildlife therein is certainly one of the greatest responsibilities we have as citizens, elected officials, and wildlife officers. As an environmental educator and the Director of a non-profit nature center, my desire to protect the natural environment is well documented. However, the proposed actions will do little to help this goal, and in actuality may do significant damage to some of the ecosystems of concern.

I am sure your time is very valuable, and so I will list the reasons this is proposal is inappropriate below and try to be as brief as possible:

q The species targeted in this proposal are all of tropical or subtropical distribution. They do not possess adaptive capacity to survive freezing winter temperatures. They do not possess hibernating behaviors or physiology, and as such will perish upon exposure to freezing or near freezing temperatures. In the contiguous United States, only the southern most portion of Florida could realistically provide a suitable habitat for these species.
q All states already have legislation prohibiting the release of non-native species. This proposal would be redundant and over reaching. Proper enforcement of the current legislation would however, benefit all parties.
q The domestic captive propagation and interstate commerce of these species (and the equipment and food to maintain these and similar animals) is a multimillion-dollar industry. The keeping of snakes and other reptiles as pets is a positive, constructive hobby engaged in by millions of Americans, particularly young people. It fosters an appreciation for the natural world, and often accelerates an interest in Science and Mathematics.
q Were this proposal to be enacted, tens of thousands of animals would become worthless commodities to professional breeders. They would be unable to sell many of them if they were prohibited from engaging in interstate commerce. No doubt, thousands would make their way into our natural habitats. Now as stated above, those habitats with freezing winter temperatures would not be affected over the long term. However, the south Florida habitats would see thousands of discarded snakes added to the ecosystems. Ironically, this is the very problem that the proposal seeks to prevent.
q The proposal is seemingly arbitrary. The species included represent a broad variety of animals and life histories. Only a small handful of which grow to large sizes. Most of the species included in these genera do not exceed two meters in length and are incapable of causing serious harm to humans.
q This issue is local in nature, i.e. as Florida is the only state in the contiguous United States that could conceivably face challenges related to the release of these animals, it is an issue best handled by the States and not the Federal Government. Mandatory microchip implants (such as are used with Dogs and Cats) are one possible tool that the States could use to protect their interests. This would give the presiding authority a direct link to the party responsible for releasing the animal, with heavy fines charged to guilty parties. These monies could be used to help fund protection of these habitats through eradication efforts.
q This proposal is inherently un-enforceable. Many people will continue to maintain collections of these animals, and as the industry ventures underground, no enforceable measures will be available to address these valid concerns.

I appreciate the USFW service’s attempts at protecting our natural environments. This proposal however, is poorly conceived.

[Laooda]

I mailed my letter yesterday! Curious to see if we get "thank you" litrature in return from this on!?!?!