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  1. #11
    Royal Morphz Maker Royal Morphz's Avatar
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    Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    he said in the beginning roussi reptiles did it but if he has ive never learned of it yet
    Tim Johnson

  2. #12
    BPnet Senior Member joepythons's Avatar
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    Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    If the kid is trying to say he has done it then he would have to been 3yrs old when he started the project .I think he is just talking about how someone "could" do it
    Joe Haggard/

  3. #13
    in evinco persecutus dr del's Avatar
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    Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    Hi,

    Incidently while looking for pics of such an animal I couldn't help stopping to gawp at Roussis reptiles other (yeah, like they have only one ) totally amazing line - the zebra pastel.

    Can you imagine a killer bee made with one of those?


    dr del
    Derek

    7 adult Royals (2.5), 1.0 COS Pastel, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Lesser platty Royal python, 1.1 Black pastel Royal python, 0.1 Blue eyed leucistic ( Super lesser), 0.1 Piebald Royal python, 1.0 Sinaloan milk snake 1.0 crested gecko and 1 bad case of ETS. no wife, no surprise.

  4. #14
    in evinco persecutus dr del's Avatar
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    Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    Hi,

    Just thinking about this - doesn't the fact it has a spider gene element mean a killerbee pied would just look like a spied with a cleaner head?


    dr del
    Derek

    7 adult Royals (2.5), 1.0 COS Pastel, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Lesser platty Royal python, 1.1 Black pastel Royal python, 0.1 Blue eyed leucistic ( Super lesser), 0.1 Piebald Royal python, 1.0 Sinaloan milk snake 1.0 crested gecko and 1 bad case of ETS. no wife, no surprise.

  5. #15
    Registered User SGExotics's Avatar
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    Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    Quote Originally Posted by Beardedragon View Post
    He says " Breed the killer bee to the peid and get killer bees 100% het pieds" instead you would get pastels and bees 100% het pied.

    He has one for sale with DBDs name on it ( no joke)

    http://secure.onlineplugins.com/roussis/available.cfm

    Edit wait no he does not, he has it labled as " Killer pied" but instead it is just a super pastel pied.
    LOL You really weren't joking

  6. #16
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    Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    how about this:

    (spider het pied * pastel het pied) * (spider het pied * pastel het pied)

    dont know i'm just new to genetics to

  7. #17
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    Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    To get a Killer Bee, both parents MUST have the pastel gene. Two Pastels provide a 25% possibility of a SuperPastel, which is part of what is required for a Killer Bee. The other part of a Killer Bee is the Spider gene. This means that at a minimum, one parent MUST be a Bumblebee to get a Killer Bee. It is genetically impossible to produce a Killer Bee without either a Bumble Bee or a Killer Bee as one of the parents.

    To produce a Pied, both parents must be at least het for Pied. This means that to produce a Pied Killer Bee, one parent MUST be either a Bumble Bee (preferably a Killer Bee) AND either at least het Pied (preferably homogeneous Pied). The other parent MUST be at least a Pastel (preferably a Super Pastel) AND at least a het Pied (preferably homogeneous Pied).

    Therefore, the "cheapest" possible parents of a Killer Bee Pied are:
    Bumblebee het-Pied
    Pastel het-Pied

    Each offspring will have the following possibility of producing each of the following morphs:
    1/32 Killer Bee Pied
    2/32 Bumble Bee Pied
    1/32 Spider Pied
    1/32 Super Pastel Pied
    2/32 Pastel Pied
    1/32 Pied
    3/32 Killer Bee 66% PossHetPied
    6/32 Bumble Bee 66% PossHetPied
    3/32 Spider 66% PossHetPied
    3/32 Super Pastel 66% PossHetPied
    6/32 Pastel 66% PossHetPied
    3/32 66% PossHetPied

    The odds are much better with a Bumblebee Pied and a Pastel Pied (no hets):
    1/8 Killer Bee Pied
    2/8 BumbleBee Pied
    1/8 Spider Pied
    1/8 Super Pastel Pied
    2/8 Pastel Pied
    1/8 Pied

  8. #18
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    Cool Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    Quote Originally Posted by Seadevil View Post
    how about this:

    (spider het pied * pastel het pied) * (spider het pied * pastel het pied)

    dont know i'm just new to genetics to
    Spider het pied * pastel het pied:
    1/16 Bumble Bee Pied
    1/16 Pastel Pied
    1/16 Spider Pied
    1/16 Pied
    3/16 Bumble Bee 66% PossHetPied
    3/16 Pastel 66% PossHetPied
    3/16 Spider 66% PossHetPied
    3/16 66% PossHetPied

    Breed the BumbleBee Pieds from both lines (breeding siblings causes genetic defects, so mating pairs should always come from separate lines) together for the best probability of producing Killer Bee Pieds. This is a valid genetic path to Killer Bee Pieds. You may be new to genetics, but you seem to have a firm grasp of this one!

  9. #19
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    Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    Quote Originally Posted by KenAmelio View Post
    Spider het pied * pastel het pied:
    1/16 Bumble Bee Pied
    1/16 Pastel Pied
    1/16 Spider Pied
    1/16 Pied
    3/16 Bumble Bee 66% PossHetPied
    3/16 Pastel 66% PossHetPied
    3/16 Spider 66% PossHetPied
    3/16 66% PossHetPied

    Breed the BumbleBee Pieds from both lines (breeding siblings causes genetic defects, so mating pairs should always come from separate lines) together for the best probability of producing Killer Bee Pieds. This is a valid genetic path to Killer Bee Pieds. You may be new to genetics, but you seem to have a firm grasp of this one!
    Technically, breeding siblings does not "cause" genetic defects. It does make it much more likely that a hidden genetic defect will show up. Based on what I've read, a lot of people have in-bred and line-bred BPs for at least a few generations without seeing negative effects of it. There are some exceptions; I think Ralph Davis is working with something (I don't remember the morph, sorry) that produced a clutch of badly deformed snakes which he thinks may be due to inbreeding. I agree with you; it is better to use separate lines when possible to avoid the possibility.

    Also, while this is a valid path, it is not one that is likely to produce a killer bee pied very soon. You could go years with the first crossing before you produced a pair of bumblebee pieds. Actually, you'd only need one if it was the opposite sex of the pastel het pied parent, or if you got a pastel pied of the opposite sex, so that would increase your odds somewhat.

    The real problem with this path is that if it isn't a visual pied, you don't even know if it is a het or not. To deal with that, if you didn't get the bumblebee pied, you do have a 1/4 chance of getting some sort of visual pied, or 1/8 chance of it being a male, so you could breed him back to the female parent and any female siblings. That would produce a lot of different possible snakes, and most of them could increase your odds of eventually hitting the killer bee pied. At least you know even the ones that aren't visual are het pied. But now we are talking 3 generations to get there, although it might be fewer years than waiting to hit the 1/16 odds of the bumblebee pied before you can even start on the second generation, depending on your luck.

    It would be simpler to go this route:

    (bumblebee * pied) * (bumblebee * pied)

    In the first generation you'd get:
    1/4 bumblebee het pied
    1/4 spider het pied
    1/4 pastel het pied
    1/4 het pied

    You can either breed 2 bumblebee het pied together, or one bumblebee pied to a pastel het pied. Using this route you have better odds of getting the morphs you need in the first generation, plus you know every one of them is het pied. You'll still have long odds of getting the killer bee pied in the 2nd generation, but overall it seems better this way. Of course, it probably costs more to buy a bumblebee and a visual pied than a pastel het pied and a spider het pied, and for some people the initial investment might be more of a concern than how long it takes to get to the end product.

    I don't even see the point of producing this snake anyway, since I'm not terribly fond of the spied in the first place. But it is fun to think out the genetics problems. Imagine something like an axanthic killer bee instead!
    Casey

  10. #20
    in evinco persecutus dr del's Avatar
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    Re: Killer Bee Pied????

    Hi,

    Indeed the axanthic killerbee is one of the most stunning animals I have ever seen pictures of.

    http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ner...-axanthic.html


    dr del
    Derek

    7 adult Royals (2.5), 1.0 COS Pastel, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Lesser platty Royal python, 1.1 Black pastel Royal python, 0.1 Blue eyed leucistic ( Super lesser), 0.1 Piebald Royal python, 1.0 Sinaloan milk snake 1.0 crested gecko and 1 bad case of ETS. no wife, no surprise.

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