Wiggles, the Children's Python

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Originally Posted by Caitlin

These little snakes are SO intelligent. I target train all of my snakes as a way of establishing trust, offering non-invasive interactions with me, and moderating the food response, among other reasons. But out of all of my snakes, it's the Antaresia and the Carpet Python (all of the Aussie pythons!) that have responded best and have become my best learners.

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I'm not sure if I have the discipline to see it through, but I'm going to give target training a try. When I fed him this week, I paired the feeding with a target (a paint stirrer with a circle drawn on then end). His food response so far hasn't been a problem. He hasn't struck at or bitten me yet. I'm just sympathetic to the non-invasive approach. For the same reason, I'm also giving choice-based handling a try.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

...I'm also giving choice-based handling a try.

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Well, for the past couple weeks, he's been choosing not to be handled. I handled him today for the first time since I got him. Not because he chose it, but because it was time for his monthly enclosure cleaning. He was a perfect sweetheart. He didn't seem stressed, but I kept it short anyway.

He's been eating well. I'm feeding him hoppers weekly. He weighed in today at 120 grams. He was advertised as 80 grams in January, so his weight's climbing quickly.

Sounds like you are on top of all possibilities! What a amazing reptile.

Wiggles bit me and I'm trying to figure out if it was a defensive bite or a food bite? I removed the glass to refresh his water bowl and he immediately came over to investigate. He seemed a little too interested, so I backed off. Tomorrow's feeding day. I sat in front of his enclosure and he came over and sniffed my hand, as he usually does. He recoiled, as he usually does, even though, this time, I wasn't wearing hand sanitizer. We did this a few times and then I resumed replacing his water. As I was returning the bowl, he struck and released. He didn't wrap. So, do you think he was defending his territory or did he think my hand might be food?

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Wiggles bit me and I'm trying to figure out if it was a defensive bite or a food bite? I removed the glass to refresh his water bowl and he immediately came over to investigate. He seemed a little too interested, so I backed off. Tomorrow's feeding day. I sat in front of his enclosure and he came over and sniffed my hand, as he usually does. He recoiled, as he usually does, even though, this time, I wasn't wearing hand sanitizer. We did this a few times and then I resumed replacing his water. As I was returning the bowl, he struck and released. He didn't wrap. So, do you think he was defending his territory or did he think my hand might be food?

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Snakes don't exactly "defend their territory", though they might personally feel cornered & threatened*. But no, that wasn't what yours was doing. :rolleyes: He was hoping your warm & wiggling hand was his incoming dinner. Fortunately he realized pretty fast that he didn't want the "special of the day". :D Hey, don't forget these little guys have heat sensing pits, & they USE them. :snake: When a snake looks a "little too interested", believe them. ;) And if you've been wearing hand sanitizer, but not this time, that might have been just enough for him to think "Hey, maybe this IS it?" I trust you'll survive?

(*Might be some exceptions as far as "territory defense"- like maybe king cobras? But I don't think most snakes have a sense of "territory".)

BAD Wiggles! :colbert: NO soup for you!

Bite and release is an attempt to defend themselves against threats/predators. Bite and wrap is an attempt at subduing prey/feed response. What you’ve experienced is a snake defending itself.


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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Snakes don't exactly "defend their territory", though they might personally feel cornered & threatened*. But no, that wasn't what yours was doing. :rolleyes: He was hoping your warm & wiggling hand was his incoming dinner. Fortunately he realized pretty fast that he didn't want the "special of the day". :D Hey, don't forget these little guys have heat sensing pits, & they USE them. :snake: When a snake looks a "little too interested", believe them. ;) And if you've been wearing hand sanitizer, but not this time, that might have been just enough for him to think "Hey, maybe this IS it?" I trust you'll survive?

(*Might be some exceptions as far as "territory defense"- like maybe king cobras? But I don't think most snakes have a sense of "territory".)

BAD Wiggles! :colbert: NO soup for you!

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It's the bite and release that confuses me. I've been taught that a bite and release is a defensive move. Bite and wrap is a food bite. His behavior prior to the bite wasn't defensive at all. He was coming toward me. Enough so, that I decided to back off and properly introduce myself. It was only when I thought it was clear to him that I wasn't food that I decided to reenter his enclosure. My mistake may have been leaving to fill the water bowl after I had introduced myself. When I returned with the water bowl, maybe, he thought I was something new. But if it was a food bite, why release? Seems counterintuitive.

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Bite and release is an attempt to defend themselves against threats/predators. Bite and wrap is an attempt at subduing prey/feed response. What you’ve experienced is a snake defending itself.

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That's what I've been taught but, he didn't seem at all defensive prior to the bite. He was coming toward me. When he bit me, I wasn't moving toward him either, although I was, admittedly, reaching into his enclosure.

It got me to thinking though. Has he ever struck and released his food? I'm not sure. I do remember some unsuccessful strikes. Maybe they weren't unsuccessful. I can't feel if he bit the mouse. Maybe he uses an exploratory bite if he's not sure if something is prey.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I trust you'll survive?

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I screamed like a little girl. My son was standing right next to me. Soooo embarrassing. Just three pin pricks at the base of my index finger. Shaving nicks hurt more.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

It's the bite and release that confuses me. I've been taught that a bite and release is a defensive move. Bite and wrap is a food bite. His behavior prior to the bite wasn't defensive at all. He was coming toward me. Enough so, that I decided to back off and properly introduce myself. It was only when I thought it was clear to him that I wasn't food that I decided to reenter his enclosure. My mistake may have been leaving to fill the water bowl after I had introduced myself. When I returned with the water bowl, maybe, he thought I was something new. But if it was a food bite, why release? Seems counterintuitive.

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"Bite & wrap" is an enthused food bite. A snake coming toward your hand is investigating what, in their mind, "might be food" is what gets you a bite like this- you didn't taste or feel right, so he "threw you back"! :D It's an honest mistake on his part- nothing more. And you already knew he was hungry- due to be fed. :rolleyes:

"Bite & release" MAY be defensive, but not always. And from your detailed description, I'm quite sure this wasn't either. Your hand was "warm & wiggling"- that might be food! Let's see?

If you'd rather PREVENT bites like this, & I highly recommend that you do ;) you need to give him more information, so he doesn't have to bite you to see if you're any good. How you let him know you're not "room service" depends on what your snake is doing when you "invade his space"- in other words, you need to pay attention to him and think first about what you're doing that's going to confuse him.

May I remind you that snakes have other senses besides sight, & that they do NOT identify things by sight- not by itself, anyway. They use cues of scent & touch, & that's what I do too, so they know what's happening. I don't want my snakes making mistakes, & neither do they. It's up to us to communicate better with them- we rely on sight & hearing, but THEY don't. Use their sense of touch & scent to help them understand what's going on. That not only prevents needless bites, it also helps them feel less stressed. They don't like "surprises" either.

Maybe if you think of the average pet snake like it's your grandmother sitting in a chair- she might be dozing off, she can't hear well, & doesn't see well. Are you going to approach her in a way that startles & scares her? I hope not. She won't bite you, but it won't be good for her heart. You might touch her arm or shoulder lightly, to let her know you're there. With a snake, you can also use their sense of smell- blow across your hand in their direction so they get your scent. Assuming you don't smell like rodents, anyway. :rofl: Or use something else as a substitute for your hand/arm, something they can come & sniff.

It's on you to pay attention to your individual snake as to whether they fully got your "message"- a very hungry snake might not have their minds changed easily. You can also mist them- it won't hurt a thing (remember, it rains in the real world) but it usually "changes the channel" very effectively.