The elusive homozygous spider...?

[mainbutter]

Okay I know this topic comes up from time to time with no definite answers. No one I know of has ever produced a homozygous spider.

My question is, has anyone here ever bred two snakes together that carried the spider gene? Perhaps a bee to a bee looking in an attempt for killerbees?

I just wanted to know if anyone has a theory as to what happens to an egg that recieves the spider gene from both parents. Is it fatal? If so I'd imagine that bee x bee pairings might have a higher likelihood for slugs, bad eggs, etc..

Part of the issue that we don't know a ton about it I assume is that it seems not many people breed spider carriers to other spider carriers, except back in the day when they were first determined to be a dominant morph.

[Bruce Whitehead]

I cannot give names, as I do not know the names... but I have never thought it was lethal (no one has ever been able to convince me), and there is a person on the board that knows of a spider that always throws 100% spider offspring, perhaps this individual will contribute...

Bruce

[RandyRemington]

It's just that we have been waiting a long time for someone to convince us spider is not homozygous lethal. There have been rumors of a hidden homozygous spider for years so if it's really possible one should eventually be proven by someone willing to share that info. I can see why there isn't a lot of interest in breeding spider X spider at this point so maybe there just haven't been enough possible homozygous spiders made yet. I have a pair of spiders and I would much rather use the female to try to make bumblebees but suppose after years of pointing out the possibility of spider being homozygous lethal I'll have to breed them together when ready and spend years more trying to confirm a homozygous offspring which might not even be possible. If I fail to confirm a homozygous spider I can never be sure if my odds where just bad or they really don't survive.

[Clurin]

Assuming that a significant number of breeders would be willing to share their data from any pairings where both animals carry the spider gene AND any pairings where one or both animals do not carry the spider gene, would we not be able to statistically prove that there is a higher rate of bad eggs (or no difference) in the spider pairings?

It would still take time, but would not need to rely on one person's breeding experiences. I understand how unlikely this is to happen, both motivation and the desire to keep pairings secret would likely make this project fall short of the needed data. Theoretically it should work though, right?

[DrLew]

I believe Spiderman was a homozygote.....

[RandyRemington]

I believe TSK did some spider X spider breeding in 2007 and planned to do it again in 2008 but I haven't asked if they did. They seem like the type that would be willing to share their results so could be a good first step toward figuring this out.

I heard that a group of corn snake breeders did the same to finally prove the allele nature of stripped and motley proposed way back in the original Color Guide to Corn Snakes (1990 or so) so it can be done.

[Bluebead]

Assuming that a significant number of breeders would be willing to share their data from any pairings where both animals carry the spider gene AND any pairings where one or both animals do not carry the spider gene, would we not be able to statistically prove that there is a higher rate of bad eggs (or no difference) in the spider pairings?

It would still take time, but would not need to rely on one person's breeding experiences. I understand how unlikely this is to happen, both motivation and the desire to keep pairings secret would likely make this project fall short of the needed data. Theoretically it should work though, right?

With accurate data on enough spiderx spider breedings we should be able to determine whether there is a homozygenous form or it is a lethal combination just from hatch rate vs hatch rate of spiderx (anything else).
If it is a lethal combination we would see a 25% lower hatch rate in spider x spider breedings.

This is an excellent project; Does anyone know someone working in the field of genetics??? this would be a great thesis for a paper on the genetics of ball python morphs.

[BallPythons9]

I'm not sure if this relates, but I think BHB may have what Brian thinks is a homozygous pinstripe. I might be wrong, but I thought he said that on Reptile Radio.

[wolfy-hound]

I'm the person with the possible homozgous spider, but I only state that because every formed fetus so far has been spider out of him(bred to normal females).
HOWEVER.. it has not been enough clutches so far to say anything definitive. I will of course, continue to report any clutchs out of him. I bred him to my pastel female this year.. and she was definitely gravid.. but died in the heater malfunction(curses), so that one is out.

[Bluebead]

I'm the person with the possible homozgous spider, but I only state that because every formed fetus so far has been spider out of him(bred to normal females).
HOWEVER.. it has not been enough clutches so far to say anything definitive. I will of course, continue to report any clutchs out of him. I bred him to my pastel female this year.. and she was definitely gravid.. but died in the heater malfunction(curses), so that one is out.

Keep us posted!!!!!!
Sorry about your loss man. losing snakes sucks