Wild vs. Captive: How will the numbers add up in the future?

[Adam_Wysocki]

I dont agree with buying or importing captive bred Bps. If I would've known Chester was WC I wouldnt of never boughten him. Sad to say but truth. We cant hardly excpet if we suddenly say " Oh well Bps ar elow in numbers lets stop importing them" It takes time for people to stop and change what they are doing. We have enough blood of Bps in captivity. And besides more than half the Bps brought in from the wild die... when they could be living or trying to make a living in the wild..I am 110% against WC Bps and importing them from the wild into captivity.

You've gotten a hold of some incorrect information. An extremely small percentage of the ball pythons that are imported into the United States die during the trip. There are strict regulations developed by an organization called IATA that regulates the way these animals are packaged and shipped to maximize their saftey and protect their lives and health.

Also, we do not have anywhere near "enough" "blood" in captivity to meet the demand for ball pythons in this country ... it's estimated that captive bred animals at this point don't even cover 15% of the annual demand for these animals.

The reality is that there is an explosion in the ball python population in West Africa ... they are actually considered nuisance animals over there ... if they aren't imported into the United States pet trade, they'll be exported from West Africa to Asia as a meat product, and if not exported to Asia, they would be burned out of their burrows and killed. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a well started, healthy, CH animal from a breeder/dealer that stands behind what they sell.

Hope this helps.

-adam

[rabernet]

You've gotten a hold of some incorrect information. An extremely small percentage of the ball pythons that are imported into the United States die during the trip. There are strict regulations developed by an organization called IATA that regulates the way these animals are packaged and shipped to maximize their saftey and protect their lives and health.

Also, we do not have anywhere near "enough" "blood" in captivity to meet the demand for ball pythons in this country ... it's estimated that captive bred animals at this point don't even cover 15% of the annual demand for these animals.

The reality is that there is an explosion in the ball python population in West Africa ... they are actually considered nuisance animals over there ... if they aren't imported into the United States pet trade, they'll be exported from West Africa to Asia as a meat product, and if not exported to Asia, they would be burned out of their burrows and killed. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a well started, healthy, CH animal from a breeder/dealer that stands behind what they sell.

Hope this helps.

-adam

Good information and good figures to know, Adam!

[KittyJ]

Even if they do not die on the trip a lot of Bp's die at the petstore for one reason or another. I know of two petcos. One petco doesnt take in Bps readily, they house their bps pretty good. But the one near our Everett Mall, the fatalities are great. A couple die each month, they're always getting more ball pythons. And if there are more petcos and more petstores that are like this (which no doubt there is) that means more are dying than being sold and living right?

[rabernet]

Even if they do not die on the trip a lot of Bp's die at the petstore for one reason or another. I know of two petcos. One petco doesnt take in Bps readily, they house their bps pretty good. But the one near our Everett Mall, the fatalities are great. A couple die each month, they're always getting more ball pythons. And if there are more petcos and more petstores that are like this (which no doubt there is) that means more are dying than being sold and living right?

But by your argument, Kitty - if they only sold CB - those would be dying under those conditions as well.

[Adam_Wysocki]

Even if they do not die on the trip a lot of Bp's die at the petstore for one reason or another. I know of two petcos. One petco doesnt take in Bps readily, they house their bps pretty good. But the one near our Everett Mall, the fatalities are great. A couple die each month, they're always getting more ball pythons. And if there are more petcos and more petstores that are like this (which no doubt there is) that means more are dying than being sold and living right?

They are dying in Petco and other pet stores because they are not being cared for properly ... it has nothing to do with being imported ... even CB ball pythons will die if their husbandry isn't correct.

-adam

[jglass38]

You've gotten a hold of some incorrect information. An extremely small percentage of the ball pythons that are imported into the United States die during the trip. There are strict regulations developed by an organization called IATA that regulates the way these animals are packaged and shipped to maximize their saftey and protect their lives and health.

Also, we do not have anywhere near "enough" "blood" in captivity to meet the demand for ball pythons in this country ... it's estimated that captive bred animals at this point don't even cover 15% of the annual demand for these animals.

The reality is that there is an explosion in the ball python population in West Africa ... they are actually considered nuisance animals over there ... if they aren't imported into the United States pet trade, they'll be exported from West Africa to Asia as a meat product, and if not exported to Asia, they would be burned out of their burrows and killed. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a well started, healthy, CH animal from a breeder/dealer that stands behind what they sell.

Hope this helps.

-adam

You are wicked smaaaht.

Everyone should understand the differences between WC and CH. They are quite different

[Mendel's Balls]

I dont think a complete ban on Importation is in order. That doesnt mean that there arent possible issues to worry about with wild-caught and captive hatched specimens.

First, it is my understanding that "captive hatched" does not necessarily reduce the number of pathogens associated with imports, as ticks have been observed to move into clutches of eggs to await hatching of the neonates. The ticks in turn could carry nasty parasites.

These pathogens do not necessarily only pose a risk to the CH ball pythons themselves. If CH ball pythons are dumped by their owners, they pose a risk to reptiles native to the US. There is also a possibility that the pathogens could affect other categories/taxa of wild and domestic animals such as mammals or even humans. Some Zoonoses associated with ticks on exotic reptiles include tularemia, Siberian tick typhus, and tickborne relapsing fever.

There's a pretty extensive ban on the importation of three species of African tortoises. These species were found to carry ticks that harbor Heartwater disease after their importation. Heartwater disease effects ruminants, anything from livestock cattle to white-tail deer.

It has been recommended that both captive-hatched and wild-caught specimens be certified free of external parasites such as ticks. Some go as far as suggesting that the US spray all exotics with a safe pesticide. They argue that's it better to be proactive rather than reactive as in the case of Heartwater disease.

The costs of the increased quarantine time could then be passed on to the customer. This would make CH and CBB more comparable in price.

If you want to read more about these issues, see Reed, R. "An Ecological Risk Assessment of Nonnative Boas and Pythons as Potentially Invasive Species in the United States" Risk Analysis Vol. 25: No. 3. (2005)
_______________________________________________________________

The other possible issue with imports is more of speculative question on my part. Ball Pythons are not endangered in Africa as already pointed out, they are such a nuisance in parts of Africa considered their native range that many of those governments consider them invasive. Still I wondered a little about the genetic management of the wild population. If every aberrant looking bp is sucked up and imported out for the pet/breeding trade, couldn't this result in a genetic bottleneck for the species?

[wolfy-hound]

As far as I remember from a study released, the ball python populations in Africa actually INCREASED. Something to do with the clearing of land being more habitable for pythons, or the cultivated areas increasing rodent populations, thereby increasing python numbers.
At any rate, I don't think there is a real fear of ball pythons becoming extinct. And CH is better than WC, I think stress-wise.
I've bought some from Neil Golli and Micheal Cole, and I think they end up with a great number of successful imports, so I don't know about the 50% die rate. Luckily ball pythons are tough, hardy snakes.
Wolfy

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

I'm sure importation will slow dramatically over time. The word gets around that wild caught are not great captives, fewer people will therefor support the importers of them. Will it ever stop completley? Not likely in the near future. Fresh blood is always a good thing for any project from what I hear. With the increased number of ball pythons being produced in the US, the demand for wild caught will slowly slope to a trickle I would think. I am no expert at the ball python economy but this is just what all the economic and buisness classes has put in my mind.

[Ginevive]

The whole future of breeding/selling rides on the backs of newcomers to the hobby. We can only go so long by selling/trading amongst ourselves as experienced hobbyists. To inform and educate the one-snake owner who hopes to expand their collection, is not only a noble thing to do, it helps the hobby!