Giant ball python

[davevh]

I think this statement is contradicting itself. If people should house their snakes separately, then so should you, correct? Why should everyone else house them separately and not you? Why settle for keeping them together---which is only satisfactory---when it's better for them, being unsocial and competitive, to have their own enclosures?

These are honest questions... I copped a 'tude earlier and I apologize. Bad day at work and I was taking my irritations out on here.

As a previous user stated, there is no definitive proof that keeping them separate or together has an impact on the general well being of the snakes. If you would be prepared to give me a grant I can set up a research project using the variables discussed so that we could get significant statistical data to settle this once and for all.

A picture here and there of a snake swallowing another snake is not indicative of the whole. Diseases can be airborne from cage to cage, keeper to animal (even washing hands does not always work). Stress is not wholly related to keeping snakes with other snakes. Temperature, snake disposition, keeper handling, and a list that I could keep on with all add up to snake stress.

You may as well apply this argument to people with dogs and cats and any other animal for that matter. Do you agree that people should have to buy a separate house to keep each dog in? Dogs transmit diseases between each other (fleas, ticks, infections), they fight and cause stress to establish a pecking order etc. Cannibalism is seen in mammals, and one or two pictures of a snake is the extreme and very unlikely (if you came to me with hundreds of cases I would separate my snakes tomorrow)

I did not say that everyone had to have a cage but me, that is putting words in my mouth. I simply stated that it is generally a good idea for most people (with less experience) to isolate (and this is the ONLY plus in my opinion) their snakes to determine bowel movement. However, I can diagnose impaction (through palpitation) and this is not an issue. The only snake that had bowel impaction was the one rescue Mir who had dry skin and I believe kept at very low humidity.

I am not at all convinced with the stress argument, that is HIGHLY subjective and has no scientific evidence, only opinion. What is the selective advantage to this dominance that everyone keeps bringing up? Again, give me some facts behind it IE why would they do this, how would thought processes spur them to do this etc

Please do not take any of what I have said personally, being a scientist I need fact and proof, not simply opinion to back up statements. The whole point of science is to prove and disprove

Thanks!

[Brimstone111888]

Yeah my only question is what benefit do you or your snakes get from being housed together?

Now cannibalism, sickness, stress, pooping/urating habits are all pretty common issues with housing ball pythons together.

I do not understand what benefit you get from housing them together and acquiring all those risks for what reward?

It boils down to a common sense issue. Do the benefits outway the risks? Absolutely not in my opinion.

[davevh]

Yeah my only question is what benefit do you or your snakes get from being housed together?

Now cannibalism, sickness, stress, pooping/urating habits are all pretty common issues with housing ball pythons together.

I do not understand what benefit you get from housing them together and acquiring all those risks for what reward?

It boils down to a common sense issue. Do the benefits outway the risks? Absolutely not in my opinion.

OK

[davevh]

OK, this thread went way off topic (Hijack :-)).

I posted this as an introduction of myself and the hope for experienced keepers that have old snakes (that may have reached large sizes or old age) to chime in.

So please, if you have a BP snake or know of a specimen larger than six feet please post here. Since snakes grow throughout their lives (and thus get longer) this may also be an opportunity for seeing how old some ball pythons are out there. So age would be relevant.

I have heard wild reports of ball pythons reaching ages between 40 and 60 years but I believe the oldest record was 46 which is incredible (they are the longest living recorded snakes)

I am hopeful to get pics and info on the specimen I mentioned next week.

Thanks, and I hope to hear about those large snakes!

Davevh

[josh@outbackreps]

The giant ball could also be a locality that gets huge known as sub Sahara balls. they are from the Vaultar (sp?) mountain region of Northern Ghana.

There have been some imported and they are huge, not just size but there body is different like a BCI boa vs. BCC. The heads on them are huge, we bought 3 of them last month from Ian G and at the 3000 gram range there heads were 2x the size of the other monster females we picked up.

Our smallest sub Sahara is 2900 + grams and her head is twice the size of a 3500 gram ghost female we picked up.
They are known for giving huge clutches, 27 eggs was reported in Africa, and I believe pics were sent over too. Ozzyboids had one that gave 18 eggs.

The biggest one I know of was imported by Ian and was 7200 grams (17+ pounds!) and we have heard of 8200 gram ones in Africa, that is probably the giant one the original poster was talking about, was a sub Sahara.

I will see if I can get pics of any of the monsters, or at least get a comparison shot of our 3000-3500 gram subs compared to a 3500 gram reg. ghost.

These are some killer snakes worth looking into, they feed easily and have great potential to breed morphs into, as they are giants not old .

[Shelby]

I'm also interested to see the pictures of the giant specimen.

Since snakes grow throughout their lives (and thus get longer)

I've always wondered if this was really true, or just one of the many reptile myths that float around. I know they grow fastest when young.. but they really do grow as long as they live?

[GirDance]

I would really love to see the pictures

Also, the idea of "giant" ball pythons entering the market excites me very much.... I'd love a nice big girl/boy.

[davevh]

The giant ball could also be a locality that gets huge known as sub Sahara balls. they are from the Vaultar (sp?) mountain region of Northern Ghana.

There have been some imported and they are huge, not just size but there body is different like a BCI boa vs. BCC. The heads on them are huge, we bought 3 of them last month from Ian G and at the 3000 gram range there heads were 2x the size of the other monster females we picked up.

Our smallest sub Sahara is 2900 + grams and her head is twice the size of a 3500 gram ghost female we picked up.
They are known for giving huge clutches, 27 eggs was reported in Africa, and I believe pics were sent over too. Ozzyboids had one that gave 18 eggs.

The biggest one I know of was imported by Ian and was 7200 grams (17+ pounds!) and we have heard of 8200 gram ones in Africa, that is probably the giant one the original poster was talking about, was a sub Sahara.

I will see if I can get pics of any of the monsters, or at least get a comparison shot of our 3000-3500 gram subs compared to a 3500 gram reg. ghost.

These are some killer snakes worth looking into, they feed easily and have great potential to breed morphs into, as they are giants not old .

Very interesting jnjreptiles! Many animals show diversity within the same species based on region. I was speaking with a friend about his Green Tree pythons (he owns 13) and he was explaining the amazing color variations based on locality. For example he was telling me about one of his adults which retains the juvenile yellow coloring and is found in a specific area of new guinea (which I guess makes it a yellow tree python). I have also observed differences among common brown house snakes in different regions of south africa.

The specimen I saw at the museum was also heavily bodied, and if memory serves I saw some very large specimens at the Transvaal snake park in my youth (along with the first Anchieta's dwarf python I had seen, a close relative). So it could well be the locality you mentioned favors larger size in this species.

If you can get a hold of any pictures and post them that would be great, along with any details of age, locality found etc.

Thanks!,

Dave

[davevh]

I'm also interested to see the pictures of the giant specimen.



I've always wondered if this was really true, or just one of the many reptile myths that float around. I know they grow fastest when young.. but they really do grow as long as they live?

Yes, this is entirely true!
Snake growth is based on the condition known as indeterminate growth. They grow rapidly until maturity and then growth slows down but never quite stops. Plants also exhibit this same phenomenon (hence old trees getting pretty darn large).
This explains why snakes continue ecdysis (keratin skin sloughing) throughout their lives.
Interestingly, many arthropods slough their outer shell but I am unsure if they have indeterminate growth (100 year old giant scorpions anyone?)

This is one of the reasons I have a lot of respect for the giant snakes in nature because they must be very old and is very sad when people kill them.

[josh@outbackreps]

http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/sahara_size.jpg
http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/...w_tepm_gum.jpg

Here are a few quick pics of 2 sub Sahara girls we have. Both are smaller, around 3000 grams but its easy to tell what they are by looking at their heads. The pic of the 2 together is of a 3200 gram sub Sahara and a 3500 gram gravid import, notice the head sizes.

I will try for more pics when we get some more time but these should get the idea acrossed.
Not sure how to post pics, but here they are, sorry for the crappy pics!