NERD (New England Reptile Distributors) *negative*

[elsn]

First: Yes this is my first post here on a brand new account. I was asked to come here and share this when it was noticed over on Facebook. I'm happy to answer any questions but forgive me if the answers are frustrated or if I misunderstand you. Since I chose to go with Facebook first, well, you can imagine the bizarre DMs and various other messages I'm getting.

Original Post

New England Reptile Distributors

*Negative*: After spending over $1500 for ball pythons we received 5 of 5 snakes all with nidovirus. These snakes were kept in quarantine for 45 days at which time one became symptomatic. We continued quarantine and had the animal tested both by a local veterinarian and also through an independent lab. Results were shared with NERD.

All animals were re-tested for nidovirus. None of the animals I own tested positive at the time of testing and they have not tested positive since. All NERD snakes tested positive for a second time. The animals were moved to another facility. Since January one has expired for unknown reasons and another has had to be euthanized. Discovery of the virus was February 28th.

I normally test within 24 hours (because of various health guarantees) but had a very busy work week and postponed it to the end of their quarantine.

Screenshots below. Plenty of receipts and nidovirus test results if any further proof is necessary.

First reply in thread from Jeremy Turgeon, facilities Manager at NERD, via original post:

Thanks for the tag. Alright, so, for anyone who is unaware, I am the facility manager at NERD, and I was the person who handled the communication with Elijah since I am friends with one of the researchers of Nidovirus at the University of Florida.

Upon the initial message, We were told that one of the snakes he received tested positive for Nidovirus. I asked for him to keep us informed, and days later, he let us know that all 5 animals had tested positive.

I asked if they were all symptomatic as we didn’t notice anything while the animals were here (we would never knowingly send a sick animal out). He told me only one was, and then listed his observations of each animal.

He told me the animals were tested via “VetDNA”. A service I told him I was not familiar with for Nido testing. (I have the entire conversation if needed). I told him that of course this information was all troubling - especially so with the research for this virus still being very much in its infancy. I expressed that as there is no cure for this and the research is still so young the next best options are protocols during collection maintenance. Last I spoke with my friend at UF he said there were over 30 species and well over 100 strains (in counting). The more detailed a test result can be the better prepared the keeper can be when dealing with this virus. I told him I would touch base with my buddy to discuss any new findings regarding Nido.

Elijah told me he was certainly concerned as he was hoping to work with other python species and was concerned about inter species transmission as it has been documented before. I asked him to keep me informed of test results and email me, and if possible secondary tests.

We talked more about the virus and how to deal with it in quite a friendly manner.

He told me he spoke to his “lab guy” and that the tests done at VetDNA are a “PCR test with some sciencey-complicated things” and that a possible false positive was basically zero chance.

He also talked about that possibilities of NERD preemptively testing animals before they were sent out, which is not feesable - however it is always a solid option to test your animals as you get them. He told me he knew it wasn’t feesable for the collection here - but just for animals going out (still not feesable) and then said he recommended VetDNA for my personal collection as the tests are affordable. “A boid package for $60 and nidovirus alone is $25.”

We continued to have a conversation about the virus and how things can be handled.

On April 16th 4:36PM Elijah informed me that 2 of the snakes he purchased were euthanized... again our conversation continued as information discussed. Again, I can post the entire conversation here.



I will add this...
Nidovirus is a tricky and frustrating issue that is industry wide. There are studies being done now of it in wild populations of snakes now. It has been stated to me numerous times (even publicly at the Nidovorus Panel discussion at SECF) that if you have more than 10 (originally 20, but things have changed) snakes (especially from various sources) you are incredibly likely to have the virus floating around. Your animals may be asymptomatic. Practicing good husbandry protocols is the best way to avoid this from spreading or possibly spreading in your collection. I’m not trying to hype this up or scare anyone. But with research being still so new there is much to learn about this. I’d be happy to explain things further and share the full conversation I had with Elijah.


Reply in thread from Jeremy Turgeon, facilities Manager at NERD, via original post:

I will also add, a major concern is also Nido species or strains jumping from one snakes species to another. We are VERY careful at NERD with husbandry protocols. With a collection as large and diverse as we have, it is imperative to do so. We have not seen signs of our animals expressing symptoms of Nido. Again, we would never knowingly send an animal out that is ill.

This disease is, as it seems, existing within the natural gut flora of these animals without expressing itself in a negative way. It is always important to remember with all living animals bacteria exist! These are not sterile vessels, they are living creatures. Keepers need to do their due diligence and again practice safe husbandry protocols to avoid cross contamination from one animal to another and from one species to another.

Another reply in thread from Jeremy Turgeon, facilities Manager at NERD, via original post:

Let me be VERY clear! From the mouths of the researchers at UF! If you have over 10 snakes (formerly thought 20, but at the rate new strains and species are being found, it has changed, especially if you get snakes from multiple difference sources) the LIKELIHOOD of you having a Nido-positive animal increases GREATLY! I believe the sample size at UF back in February was LESS THAN 1000 reptiles (not just snakes). Think about that for a second. Over 30 species and over 100 strains found in LESS than 1000 animals. So! Let’s look at numbers. We have nothing to hide - if these animals that were quarantined and away from other reptiles tested positive, then that’s that. You may test your animals with the best test and get a negative if the species or strain of Nido has yet to be found. This is for KNOWN SPECIES/STRAINS! During my conversations with Elijah there were three more strains of Nido discovered - I believe it was within a week!

It is our job as keepers to ensure we take the right precautions and install proper protocols during enclosure cleaning and general maintenance. It is also important, especially as the research continues, that we realize - with how little information IS known and false negatives being a possible issue that the better tests you can get, the more information you have. And testing once isn’t enough! We have all heard the horror stories of what Nido can do - so we need to educate ourselves CONSTANTLY as new information will be anxiously awaited.

Thread on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2415...6252/?sfnsn=mo

Media

Please see the Facebook post. Sorry but I do not have the time to transload these to an image host at the moment. I will try to add them later.

Final thoughts

As mentioned, this is pretty exhausting. If there is something else I can provide please let me know.

The takeaway here should be that nidovirus *is still* pervasive throughout our industry. Jeremy is a very knowledgeable person with great insights.

The animals I own have been tested before and will undergo testing again. No one has a good indicator of what the incubation period is for this disease but 30 days has been suggested. Re-testing is being done monthly and all NERD animals have tested positive multiple times while other animals here continue to test negative. I have no indication that nidovirus was present here prior to the NERD snakes. There is no indication it is present here after their relocation. I also accept that I should have tested them immediately but misjudged and accept fault.

The NERD animals were relocated from my home after testing. Three remain "healthy looking" and do not skip meals. One was euthanized while experiencing severe respiratory illness. The other expired for unknown reasons.

This is expensive, stressful, and time consuming. Re-testing every 30 days has been a nightmare especially considering outside circumstances affecting coordinating mail delivery, vet scheduling, randoms on Facebook letting me know they want to simultaneously fight me while adding me to their Do-Not-Sell lists.... It's been a wild ride.