I think my snake loves me

[Jay_Bunny]

Everyone could make sense if a snake has been abused by humans and has learned to expect them to inflict pain.

But what if a snake reacted that way only towards some specific individual who had never done anything to "get off on the wrong foot"? If a snake hates one person for no apparent reason, and tolerates being around everyone else; surely something is responsible for the personality clash.

I have never seen a snake react differently toward a person. It could be a matter of if you are trying to hand an already stressed out snake (handling=stress) and hand them off to someone who is perhaps not as comfortable with snakes or smells of a predator (dog, cat, etc) then the snake might react defensively, but a snake isn't just going to start hissing and biting because "Hey, I don't like the way that dude looked at me. Take that, Hand!"

Snakes cannot hate. They can feel uncomfortable around someone who is less experienced in handling them. A nervous person is going to be a bit more rough and jerky, which causes the snake to stress out. If you were in a tree and suddenly the tree hands you off to a tree that kept shaking you or moving branches really close to your face, you'd be scared too.

This debate on whether or not snakes can love or hate is getting really old. Its like debating whether my dog can do algebra. Emotions are not intelligence, I understand that, but it is comparable. Reptiles lack the mental capacity to form complex emotions. Can they trust that this warm rock (you) won't move out from under him..maybe. Can they love you...no.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

I have never seen a snake react differently toward a person. It could be a matter of if you are trying to hand an already stressed out snake (handling=stress) and hand them off to someone who is perhaps not as comfortable with snakes or smells of a predator (dog, cat, etc) then the snake might react defensively, but a snake isn't just going to start hissing and biting because "Hey, I don't like the way that dude looked at me. Take that, Hand!"

Snakes cannot hate. They can feel uncomfortable around someone who is less experienced in handling them. A nervous person is going to be a bit more rough and jerky, which causes the snake to stress out. If you were in a tree and suddenly the tree hands you off to a tree that kept shaking you or moving branches really close to your face, you'd be scared too.

This debate on whether or not snakes can love or hate is getting really old. Its like debating whether my dog can do algebra. Emotions are not intelligence, I understand that, but it is comparable. Reptiles lack the mental capacity to form complex emotions. Can they trust that this warm rock (you) won't move out from under him..maybe. Can they love you...no.

On the contrary.. Retics have been known to show a preference to one person and aggression or fleeing reactions toward another.

Different species have different intelligence levels. Some operate on instinct alone, while others demonstrate a level of recognition and memory that others don't.

[sgath92]

Agreed. Reptiles do have the right brain structures to have some form of emotions. I'm not saying they have the same range of emotions and cognitive ability that you'd find in a more advanced brain like that of an African Gray but the prerequisites are there for some basic emotion-capabilities.

There have been experiments where radioactive dyes have been bonded to GnRH's in snakes which allow you to see brain functions, structures and fibers under imagery. Using colubrids they've seen the amygdala [the brain structure that serves as the "emotions computer" in mammals including humans] doing things during their mating process, during fear responses, etc. which implies something is going on in there deeper than impulsive reflex responses to real-time stimuli.

For years there was this theory in evolutionary sciences that mammal brains were simply built-up "reptilian brains" that were given additional structures by the evolutionary process. It's long been shown that birds have brains that structurally look like reptile brains with the addition of more things we know little about and that mammal brains are like bird brains with yet more things that we know even less about added onto them.

So maybe, just maybe, what's going on in there is they have a bad or good experience with something and that triggers a basic emotion that's either good or bad. As a result of that, when a future situation presents itself the snake's amygdala starts sending "good" or "bad" vibes using basic, primitive emotions instead of using a higher cognitive process like the way our brains use memory recall.

i.e. a human might think upon walking into a dentist office about the time they went to the dentist at 5 and how they forgot to use Novocaine and started drilling into a cavity without any painkillers and that hurt really bad yet despite that a human could use reason to overcome that and conclude "but I rather not loose all my teeth" whereas a snake might only get a primitive "I hate this" feeling followed by defense mode without any overriding logic.

[Xan Powers]

god this thread was a good read.


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[DarrinLowe]

The whole "my snake recognizes me so it must love me" argument is not a very strong one. I could argue that a snake recognizes your scent as something that is non-threatening. Much like if it were in the wild. It it smells or detects no threats in an area, it will seek out the most comfortable spot. In captivity it does the same thing. Your scent is something they associate with no threats. While they may not associate you as an individual person that they become attached to, they do understand that with your smell comes no threat of predation. You are also warm, which in a home that is sitting at room temperature (72), they are going to seek out something that is radiating heat to be close to. That is often why some snakes will prefer to stay on you rather than roam the room. You are warm and they sense no threats. This does not mean they love you. It just means you are a comfy, warm, rock which no predators around.

Wouldn't the mere fact that a snake associates your scent with safety represent atleast a primitive form of love? You're contradicting yourself my friend. If a snake was only seeking warmth and security I'm sure the seemingly unnoticed by us, vibrations of the human body would be enough to throw it off. The problem is that you're being far too closed minded in your concept of love. A snake is not a human being, therefore it cannot love in a human being manner, though the snake is living so it is capable of loving in such a way, regardless of wether the snake does love in that way, does not change the fact that it is capable, in one way or another of loving. To assume that it is a simple being that merely succumbs to a genetic code, that instinctively determines it's actions would be the same as assuming that human beings are built much the same, but have evolved to such a level that our minds convince ourselves we have a purpose, so that we continue to follow our own base instincts, due to becoming too aware of ourselves as an existence. So think about the implications of your words before you voice them.

What it comes down to, is wether you believe in god. Which provides a rather mixed perspective, as one who does not believe in god, must believe that all animals are capable of what we perceive as love, as all animals are capable of evolution. If one believes in god, then we are the mere shepards of a world of absent minded primitives that may only base their lives off of instinctive associations.

[purplemuffin]

What it comes down to, is wether you believe in god. Which provides a rather mixed perspective, as one who does not believe in god, must believe that all animals are capable of what we perceive as love, as all animals are capable of evolution. If one believes in god, then we are the mere shepards of a world of absent minded primitives that may only base their lives off of instinctive associations.

Now that's not necessarily true here. I agree with your argument actually, but as someone who believes in both science and God, I see a little different picture. I'm not crazy, I know that our emotions we feel are caused by hormonal and chemical changes in our body in reaction to sight, scent, movement, color, sound, etc. I believe that humans have instincts as well, and honestly, without being an animal how can we know that a human's feeling of just wanting to ah... "Mate" with the next hot babe he sees is that much different than the chemicals and instincts telling the same thing to a snake or a dog! I think it's far less advanced, but instincts and hormones create some sort of effect on an animal, and how it is interpreted in their mind is unknown to us!

But just cause I believe in God doesn't mean I believe animals are mindless... "God is Love" and all that!

[Egapal]

Wouldn't the mere fact that a snake associates your scent with safety represent atleast a primitive form of love?

No.

You're contradicting yourself my friend. If a snake was only seeking warmth and security I'm sure the seemingly unnoticed by us, vibrations of the human body would be enough to throw it off. The problem is that you're being far too closed minded in your concept of love. A snake is not a human being, therefore it cannot love in a human being manner, though the snake is living so it is capable of loving in such a way, regardless of wether the snake does love in that way, does not change the fact that it is capable, in one way or another of loving.

Why is the fact that something is alive necessarily lead to it being capable of love? Your logic is severely flawed. Do trees love? Trees are alive. The question is does a snake have the parts of the brain where love reside. I would say no based on my understanding of the reptile brain.

To assume that it is a simple being that merely succumbs to a genetic code, that instinctively determines it's actions would be the same as assuming that human beings are built much the same, but have evolved to such a level that our minds convince ourselves we have a purpose, so that we continue to follow our own base instincts, due to becoming too aware of ourselves as an existence. So think about the implications of your words before you voice them.

I actually believe that humans are nothing more than animals with complex brains that extrapolate greater meaning from the behaviors driven by instincts and guided by our brains. I don't see anything wrong with that belief.

What it comes down to, is wether you believe in god. Which provides a rather mixed perspective, as one who does not believe in god, must believe that all animals are capable of what we perceive as love, as all animals are capable of evolution. If one believes in god, then we are the mere shepards of a world of absent minded primitives that may only base their lives off of instinctive associations.

I don't believe in any gods and I don't accept that all animals are capable of love so I would say that "must believe" is a bit of a stretch. Perhaps you should think about the implications of your words before you voice them. Not believing in a God or gods tells us 1 and only one thing about a person. They do not believe in a God or gods. Atheists hold a wide range of beliefs that are widely different and, once again, only one necessarily in common. Don't lump Atheists together. Its as ignorant as lumping Christians or any other theists together.

[dryates]

No.



Why is the fact that something is alive necessarily lead to it being capable of love? Your logic is severely flawed. Do trees love? Trees are alive. The question is does a snake have the parts of the brain where love reside. I would say no based on my understanding of the reptile brain.
!


I actually believe that humans are nothing more than animals with complex brains that extrapolate greater meaning from the behaviors driven by instincts and guided by our brains. I don't see anything wrong with that belief.




I don't believe in any gods and I don't accept that all animals are capable of love so I would say that "must believe" is a bit of a stretch. Perhaps you should think about the implications of your words before you voice them. Not believing in a God or gods tells us 1 and only one thing about a person. They do not believe in a God or gods. Atheists hold a wide range of beliefs that are widely different and, once again, only one necessarily in common. Don't lump Atheists together. Its as ignorant as lumping Christians or any other theists together.

Trees love photosynthesis because they need it
To live, jk

But for the sake of the argument, does it really matter if someone wants to believe there snake loves them or not, besides, to all no snake people we are all crazy anyways!!

[Xan Powers]

Wouldn't the mere fact that a snake associates your scent with safety represent atleast a primitive form of love? You're contradicting yourself my friend. If a snake was only seeking warmth and security I'm sure the seemingly unnoticed by us, vibrations of the human body would be enough to throw it off. The problem is that you're being far too closed minded in your concept of love. A snake is not a human being, therefore it cannot love in a human being manner, though the snake is living so it is capable of loving in such a way, regardless of wether the snake does love in that way, does not change the fact that it is capable, in one way or another of loving. To assume that it is a simple being that merely succumbs to a genetic code, that instinctively determines it's actions would be the same as assuming that human beings are built much the same, but have evolved to such a level that our minds convince ourselves we have a purpose, so that we continue to follow our own base instincts, due to becoming too aware of ourselves as an existence. So think about the implications of your words before you voice them.

What it comes down to, is wether you believe in god. Which provides a rather mixed perspective, as one who does not believe in god, must believe that all animals are capable of what we perceive as love, as all animals are capable of evolution. If one believes in god, then we are the mere shepards of a world of absent minded primitives that may only base their lives off of instinctive associations.

this was a phenomenal argument to the opposing side of this theory and I have to say that it does make you wonder if a humans perception of love could not be attained but rather the animals own distinction of love. ball pythons can surely fear someone or something, wouldn't the flip side of that be associating love-like characteristics with someone or something?


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[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

A snake can't hear a kissing sound.. That wouldn't even make enough of a vibration for a snake to feel. They feel vibration and also vibration from certain sounds or wavelengths but they can not hear. So the snake that is smelling, or as you put it, kissing you lips after you do that, is inspecting it's surroundings. It knows you are not a threat. It can pick up the heat from your lips. It can feel and smell your breath.. etc etc..

Snakes are scientifically, biologically unable to feel the human emotion love. It's a scientific impossibility. So why is there even a question?? Thats what I don't get here. It's like saying grass is orange. The earth is shaped like a triangle. Humans hatch from eggs.. It's simply not fact and makes those people look very silly.

One could go on forever about how their snake behaves around them but it all boils down to the facts of nature, biology, and the brains ability to feel..