Hardened yolks, hard belly, mass in Ball python hatchlings

[xdeus]

Herpsss does have a good point. Although I appreciate Robyn's thread in that it describes this unfortunate occurrence, I don't agree with Robyn's comment :

Unless a vet has specifically dealt with that in the past, successfully, it is unlikely they would be all that helpful, so I wouldn't recommend a vet visit as a matter of course.

I recently had to deal with my first hard-belly, and chose to operate on the snake myself. I believe most knowledgeable vets would be more skilled and better equipped than dealing with hard-belly than I was, but I still managed to save his life and he is currently thriving. If I had followed the advice given in this thread, my snake would most likely have died. The hard-belly lump that I extracted was quite a bit larger than the one in the picture and never would have passed through his cloaca.

I'm not opposed to people trying to gently pass the mass out of the cloaca, but if it doesn't work I wouldn't suggest forcing it to the point of tearing the snake. Instead, I would advise seeking out professional help to surgically remove the mass.

Here's the link which describes my experience.

[Robyn@SYR]

Herpsss does have a good point. Although I appreciate Robyn's thread in that it describes this unfortunate occurrence, I don't agree with Robyn's comment :

I recently had to deal with my first hard-belly, and chose to operate on the snake myself. I believe most knowledgeable vets would be more skilled and better equipped than dealing with hard-belly than I was, but I still managed to save his life and he is currently thriving. If I had followed the advice given in this thread, my snake would most likely have died. The hard-belly lump that I extracted was quite a bit larger than the one in the picture and never would have passed through his cloaca.

I'm not opposed to people trying to gently pass the mass out of the cloaca, but if it doesn't work I wouldn't suggest forcing it to the point of tearing the snake. Instead, I would advise seeking out professional help to surgically remove the mass.

Here's the link which describes my experience.

I can see how that would rub you wrong, my apologies for casting such a broad net. I thought it was already getting too wordy.

There are some great vets out there, and some with solid reptile experience, no doubt. But the majority of vet visit stories I see are with vets that have little to no reptile experience, and end up performing procedures (for a fee) that have little relevance to proper captive husbandry or reptile recovery.

The local vet we use takes the same approach we do, and would have a solid chance of success, as you did. But I think he (and you) are the exception, not the rule.

As for Herpsss- awesome first post! What is your other user name here at BPnet?

[xdeus]

I can see how that would rub you wrong, my apologies for casting such a broad net. I thought it was already getting too wordy.

There are some great vets out there, and some with solid reptile experience, no doubt. But the majority of vet visit stories I see are with vets that have little to no reptile experience, and end up performing procedures (for a fee) that have little relevance to proper captive husbandry or reptile recovery.

The local vet we use takes the same approach we do, and would have a solid chance of success, as you did. But I think he (and you) are the exception, not the rule.

I agree with you that a large number of vets having limited reptile experience. One of the reasons why I decided to perform the procedure myself was because of a negative (and costly) experience I had with a local exotic animal vet in our area. However, I believe it is probably worth the time to research the vets in your area to make that determination before you attempt the procedure you suggested. Many vets are capable, and even if they do not have the experience dealing with hard-belly, I imagine many vets would be willing to listen to their customers when it comes to procedural advice. Vets at least have the proper equipment, training, and skill to perform a relatively simple procedure. If caught early enough, I believe the snake has a much better chance of survival if operated on than if someone tried to push out a large mass that would injure the snake.

[JLC]

Herpsss does have a good point. Although I appreciate Robyn's thread in that it describes this unfortunate occurrence, I don't agree with Robyn's comment :

I recently had to deal with my first hard-belly, and chose to operate on the snake myself. I believe most knowledgeable vets would be more skilled and better equipped than dealing with hard-belly than I was, but I still managed to save his life and he is currently thriving. If I had followed the advice given in this thread, my snake would most likely have died. The hard-belly lump that I extracted was quite a bit larger than the one in the picture and never would have passed through his cloaca.

I'm not opposed to people trying to gently pass the mass out of the cloaca, but if it doesn't work I wouldn't suggest forcing it to the point of tearing the snake. Instead, I would advise seeking out professional help to surgically remove the mass.

Here's the link which describes my experience.

I have a bit of confusion about your argument, Lawrence. On the one hand, you disapprove of Robyn's statement saying that a vet probably can't help....then you turn around and tell everyone about how YOU also did not seek out a vet, but chose to operate on the animal yourself. ....because you knew a vet couldn't help? How is slicing open an animal, removing something from its insides, and then sewing it up any less risky than the procedure that Robyn illustrated here?

This article is not going to start an epidemic of people splitting open baby ball python bellies. But maybe it will help those RARE folks who run across this phenomenon for the first time and come looking for information. They can read what is there and then decide for themselves how much risk they want to take. Robyn does not downplay the risk involved...in fact, he spells it out very graphically.

Some will follow "Herpsss" lead and just euthanize right off the bat.
Some will try what Robyn has shown.
Some may try to operate themselves.
Some will seek out a vet to help.
Some will just let the animal die on its own without any intervention on their part.

It's ALWAYS going to be down to those choices, and all this thread does is give folks more information to help them choose their path...it does nothing to encourage or discourage any one of them.

That is how I see this thread.

[xdeus]

I have a bit of confusion about your argument, Lawrence. On the one hand, you disapprove of Robyn's statement saying that a vet probably can't help....then you turn around and tell everyone about how YOU also did not seek out a vet, but chose to operate on the animal yourself. ....because you knew a vet couldn't help? How is slicing open an animal, removing something from its insides, and then sewing it up any less risky than the procedure that Robyn illustrated here?

I'm sorry if I didn't make it more clear. The reason I didn't have a vet operate on my snake is because I had recently spent a small fortune and ended up losing a snake because the vet did not want to listen to my advice on an eggbound snake. This was supposedly the best herp vet in the area.

However, I did know the limitations and the flexibility of my local vet when the hard-belly situation came up which is why I decided to operate on the snake myself. I would encourage anyone with a snake that had hard-belly to seek out a vet before trying to squeeze it out of the snake or perform the surgery themselves. I can guarantee you that if I had followed the advice of Robyn my snake would be dead today.

The procedure that I performed wasn't exactly as primitive as you put it. I performed essentially the same operation that a vet would have after extensive research, and obviously it turned out well for me. If I had tried squeezing out the mass from my snake, I am sure it would have suffered severe trauma and a painful death.