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yes, i didn’t mean to derail the thread so much however there are several things here that i would say in response - first, i am not saying people should do thing which they are uncomfortable with or would otherwise be actively taking exceptional risks, etc - what i have been saying is i think SD/D retics -9 ft can be 1 person snakes, and, i also think the “1 person” range of care can be species specific because i don’t think a 10-11 foot scrub python is a “2 person” animal since body wise they’re basically large black snakes with python heads, some males can only 10-15 lbs, the weight of a chunky house cat *BUT* ultimately, if i ever felt 1 of my snakes was too much to handle i would simply just have my bf (6’7, v huge) spot me
the point about dogs is both comparable and v significant here because out of all the retics, mainland and otherwise, that have been produced and sold in the US, only 1 death has ever been recorded and attributed to retics compared to the dozens and dozens of fatal dog attacks that happen each and every year - from *domesticated* dogs too - my neighbor’s security cam caught on tape 5 unruly, and big dogs chasing her down and actively hunting/attacking her like a wolf pack - had her husband not shot out of the house with a large metal pipe and chased them away it could’ve been fatal, easily - yet we perceive 1 animal one way, and the other a different way
despite pop culture, dogs are significantly dangerous and if i were to pluck a juvenile wild wolf pup out of the forest it would absolutely be unpredictable and would have the potential to critically and/or fatally attack another animal or human being - i don’t see how it *wouldn’t* be comparable to retics, mainland or otherwise - particularly given that actual wolves are way bigger than a lot of people realize
is all that to say that we should hang the rules and throw caution to the wind? no, that would be silly but i am saying that i think, given locality and size, some retics can be a 1 person animal, some need teams and a lot of resources and basically a whole basement or facility to keep and that bloodlines matter and have an impact on generalized behavior patterns
het for nothing but groovy
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There's somewhere around 70 million households with dogs in the US. Maybe 5 million with reptiles, retics being a very small portion of that. Dogs are also treated just a bit differently than large snakes as most people I know don't allow their snakes to roam freely around the house, yard, or neighborhood. If there were as many retics in homes all allowed to be unsupervised around small children the way dogs are, you'd see a lot more fatalities. You're comparing apples to oranges.
2.0 Python brongersmai
1.1 Python breitensteini
1.0 Python curtus
1.0.1 Python regius
1.0 Acrantophis dumerili
1.0 Boa constrictor
0.1 Heterodon nasiscus nasiscus
0.0.1 Pantherophis guttatus
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The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GoingPostal For This Useful Post:
Bogertophis (06-08-2022),Gio (06-08-2022),Homebody (06-08-2022)
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Accidents tend to happen when people are "sure they won't" & when they "didn't need back-up". And those tend to be the ones that make the news...
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
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I remember watching a show on Animal Planet called Fatal Attractions back in the day. It was about people who keep dangerous animals (both wild and domestic), usually with at least one person per episode being a post-mortem case. It delved into the psychology as to why such people did what they did, and a good chunk of it involved them thinking they and they specifically had the power and knowhow to control such "untamable beasts." Needless to say, they often if not nearly always ended up being wrong, dead wrong...
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Re: How did retics get so popular?
![Quote](images/themes/default/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Gio
This discussion has switched gears however, I am a little concerned that people may get the wrong idea about human, physical strength when it comes to fending off an apex predator like a reticulated python.
A 9 foot retic is no joke, and anything larger is more dangerous if things go wrong. Squatting, deadlifting, curling and bench pressing heavy weights will maybe give you an edge over somebody smaller and not as strong but I'm sorry, curling 75 pounds or any lifting ability goes out the window if the snake surprises you.
I've been involved with powerlifting for 36 years. My totals aren't worth listing because they aren't relevant when it comes to battling a retic.
I had a 9' male SD X dwarf X mainland that became increasingly more aggressive with age. The snake was still growing rapidly at 4 years old. I followed the rules and did the right things with hook training but I still had a bad experience.
As I was removing the snake from the enclosure it rapidly coiled one arm, then bit the other hand and "handcuffed" me. The term Bogertophis used is actually quite common.
I was in a fight for about 10 minutes and the animal finally released. It wasn't a fight for my life, but I was smart enough to realize, without help I would not be able to continue to care for the animal. I don't find aggressive snakes relaxing or fun. It doesn't fit into why I like the hobby. That's just how I feel, not everybody has that view.
Had the bite been to my face, the snake could have easily worked its body to my neck and that could have been the end of me.
A good bite will change your focus. You will instinctively try to keep the business end of the animal from shredding you, retics will bite, twist and slice when combative. That takes up one hand or arm leaving you with the other to try to keep a long body from coiling around a vital area.
I tried calling for my wife who isn't into snakes but she didn't hear me. I was not able to open the door to get upstairs, I was not able to grab the bottle of Listerine I kept by the cage to dump down the snakes mouth in the event of a bite so it was a waiting game. I stayed very calm as it only involved my lower arms, wrists and hands.
Somehow, both of my hands were ripped up and bleeding by the end. I was able to get the animal back into the cage when it released the bite, and he turned around and came right back at me.
I highly recommend 2 people for retics larger than 8 feet. The 3 family members here don't share the enthusiasm that I do for reptiles, making me a solo show. Common sense and consideration for family members here made the decision of placing that snake easy.
Most of the time things go well, but it can be dangerous when things don't go well.
The point of the thread was the popularity of the species.
I see it a lot, people are drawn to the species, they go all in and down the road they are out for many reasons. These animals have been hardwired over millions and millions of years to survive. Their instincts haven't changed they tolerate us and can be worked with but things can happen. There is far less predictability with an animal like a retic VS a dog. Dogs have changed a lot by comparison.
The retic is a species that requires a lot of dedication and money if kept properly.
I've read some of your posts about your retic experience and have been wondering some things...I wonder if there are things some keepers do unintentionally that cause these things to happen. Like there are so many people who probably have positive experiences with retics who don't feel the need to share their experiences on a forum, like social media, and it doesn't seem fair to assume that this who dint continually update had the bad experience. For someone like me, for example, I get into things like my new burm, come here for some questions and inspiration, but soon remember it's the same small group of giant python people saying the same things. It's fun when there's a new snake person we can help, but having 1-4 of the same people commenting on a snake update likely loses a lot of people once their snakes are established. I feel confident in the breeders and true professionals I follow, like Jason's exotic reptiles, Garrett and Kevin mccurley, and am not inclined to let somebody's bad experience dictate my decisions. I know this post is coming out wrong and I am aware of it as I write, and in sorry for that because I don't mean it to. A number of people here understand very well that mainlands are too much, but may get them anyway. Most of the idiots out there who buy the cute tiger platy aren't smart enough to find this forum, so we may just be preaching to ourselves through personal biases at subs point, especially in the smaller threads.
I will have a SD one day, but I'd only get it from one person, Garrett from ROR. I trust and respect his knowledge and honesty with bloodlines and the likelihood of what can be expected from a snake like this.
To end where I started, what I wonder is if certain people do weird things as keepers we don't even know about, if other snakes or pets in the house trigger their senses, or who knows what else.
None of this is meant as a jab to you Gio I promise, your inputs just keep me thinking over time, and this was my attempt to respond in an honest way though I feel as though this may have been tune wasted...sorry. Enjoy your noodles.
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it’s interesting to see how views change and get refined over time - i still feel the same - i think large/giant pythons can be safely handled with proper techniques i.e. not supporting a 12 foot snake on a 5 foot human frame - i have lots of ideas i wish to experiment with when my burms and afrocks get bigger so perhaps i might revisit this later on
per wanki’s comments - i do think you’re perhaps right in part however i think all sorts of discussions and debates separate from the OP are good and you’d be surprised who might view them and what they might get out of it
like for example, someone might Google retic sizes or popularity and come across this thread and they might see our little chat and this might make them critically think about the choices they are making rather than impulsively buying a 100M retic without due consideration of what doing so means in reality
het for nothing but groovy
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