Suggestions on how to handle this

[Adam_Wysocki]

In my opinion there are two main circumstances. 1) Everything goes right 2) Something goes wrong.

I can safely say it won't matter much who you got the snake from if #1 is true (unless you are re-selling babies based on name), but when #2 is true, who you got the snake from almost always matters.

If a small breeder is extremely educated, plans very well, and has all of his ducks in a row, and is established, then there is no reason to hesitate buying from them. Finding out that this is true is the tricky part.

A few questions I would ask a smaller breeder. (no particular order)
1) how did you verify the sex
2) do you guarantee the health (short term) and genetics/sex(long term) of this snake
3) Did you produce this snake! (pictures of parents, and background on where they came from)
4) replacement policy if #2 becomes an issue. Do you keep enough of each back to cover mistakes in sexing


If you are buying from someone simply because the price is low, do a reality check. If this person is undercutting and selling super low, why? Is someone like this very likely to have a lot of extra money sitting around in case they need to do a refund? Are they likely to patiently hold onto snakes in case they need to offer a replacement for any reason? Small breeders may have less overhead than bigger/established breeders, but that doesn't mean their prices reflect a responsible approach to running a business.


I am a small/new/unestablished breeder. I have about 30-40 females that will go this year, and by next season probably 60'ish. After watching market prices and the way people are treating this hobby, I plan on keeping all of my prices up where the sane breeders have theirs. If the snakes don't sell, I will keep them and continue to feed them. For every X number of male _____ I sell, I plan on keeping at least 1 back. This is for the above reason, to have replacements available if needed. If I end up with them for a full year, I will rotate them into the breeding mix, and be able to sell them as proven breeders after that if I really have no need for them. I plan on having enough cash available to me to handle any additional shipping costs required to make mistakes right, as well as to handle refunds. Money from sales will go into an account, and a certain percentage will always stay in that account to cover any requested refunds. I am not putting myself in a position where I have to sell ANY snakes next year. I can keep or sell whatever I decide I want to, and my hand will not be forced to jump on the newest low market price in order to stay afloat.

I don't have a perfect picture/plan, but it is coming together. I think what I stated above is a good plan in order to avoid alot of the mistakes I have seen/experienced already as someone who has bought from smaller breeders. Heck, I even bought from a decent sized breeder who was somewhat established, and they came into money problems and couldn't refund me right away. S**T happens, but by going with someone who has a good system, and has proven it over and over again, you lower your chances for problems.

It will take me years to establish myself as a reputable breeder who always makes things right, but I am willing to put the time and effort and work my way up one sale at a time, and one satisifed customer at a time. I understand that I could have more sales if I dropped prices, but that isn't responsible, in my opinion.

I also understand that my earlier argument says "don't buy from people like me", who are small and haven't built up a name yet. If you do, it requires a lot of discretion and a lot of questions. Everyone has to start somewhere, but make sure if you are buying from a small breeder it is for reasons regarding the way they run things, rather than that they are selling at lower prices. Even small breeders can run things like the big guys as far as customer service, they just can't overextend themselves or they will run into trouble.

Bryan, when you have snakes available this season give me a call and we'll do some business. I'd like to support you any way that I can.

BRAVO!

-adam

[Emilio]

In my opinion there are two main circumstances. 1) Everything goes right 2) Something goes wrong.

I can safely say it won't matter much who you got the snake from if #1 is true (unless you are re-selling babies based on name), but when #2 is true, who you got the snake from almost always matters.

If a small breeder is extremely educated, plans very well, and has all of his ducks in a row, and is established, then there is no reason to hesitate buying from them. Finding out that this is true is the tricky part.

A few questions I would ask a smaller breeder. (no particular order)
1) how did you verify the sex
2) do you guarantee the health (short term) and genetics/sex(long term) of this snake
3) Did you produce this snake! (pictures of parents, and background on where they came from)
4) replacement policy if #2 becomes an issue. Do you keep enough of each back to cover mistakes in sexing


If you are buying from someone simply because the price is low, do a reality check. If this person is undercutting and selling super low, why? Is someone like this very likely to have a lot of extra money sitting around in case they need to do a refund? Are they likely to patiently hold onto snakes in case they need to offer a replacement for any reason? Small breeders may have less overhead than bigger/established breeders, but that doesn't mean their prices reflect a responsible approach to running a business.


I am a small/new/unestablished breeder. I have about 30-40 females that will go this year, and by next season probably 60'ish. After watching market prices and the way people are treating this hobby, I plan on keeping all of my prices up where the sane breeders have theirs. If the snakes don't sell, I will keep them and continue to feed them. For every X number of male _____ I sell, I plan on keeping at least 1 back. This is for the above reason, to have replacements available if needed. If I end up with them for a full year, I will rotate them into the breeding mix, and be able to sell them as proven breeders after that if I really have no need for them. I plan on having enough cash available to me to handle any additional shipping costs required to make mistakes right, as well as to handle refunds. Money from sales will go into an account, and a certain percentage will always stay in that account to cover any requested refunds. I am not putting myself in a position where I have to sell ANY snakes next year. I can keep or sell whatever I decide I want to, and my hand will not be forced to jump on the newest low market price in order to stay afloat.

I don't have a perfect picture/plan, but it is coming together. I think what I stated above is a good plan in order to avoid alot of the mistakes I have seen/experienced already as someone who has bought from smaller breeders. Heck, I even bought from a decent sized breeder who was somewhat established, and they came into money problems and couldn't refund me right away. S**T happens, but by going with someone who has a good system, and has proven it over and over again, you lower your chances for problems.

It will take me years to establish myself as a reputable breeder who always makes things right, but I am willing to put the time and effort and work my way up one sale at a time, and one satisifed customer at a time. I understand that I could have more sales if I dropped prices, but that isn't responsible, in my opinion.

I also understand that my earlier argument says "don't buy from people like me", who are small and haven't built up a name yet. If you do, it requires a lot of discretion and a lot of questions. Everyone has to start somewhere, but make sure if you are buying from a small breeder it is for reasons regarding the way they run things, rather than that they are selling at lower prices. Even small breeders can run things like the big guys as far as customer service, they just can't overextend themselves or they will run into trouble.

Great post Bryan I think everyone planning on making a small business out of this should do exactly that. Great business practice's will alway's be rewarded , anyone who make's a mistake like the one in this thread should be held to account.

[xdeus]

In my opinion there are two main circumstances. 1) Everything goes right 2) Something goes wrong. I can safely say it won't matter much who you got the snake from if #1 is true (unless you are re-selling babies based on name), but when #2 is true, who you got the snake from almost always matters.

Well said, Bryan. I think we're on the same page, but I think you may have misunderstood my post. The circumstances I was referring to had more to do with specific issues in the Ball biz such as questionable morphs, double hets, and other circumstances that the big breeders can handle much more reliably. My point was that people shouldn't flock to the big breeders because they had that "big breeder" status, but rather they should do their homework on any breeder they decided to do business with and shouldn't discount the small breeder just because they don't deal with thousands of snakes.

You bring up a good point about large breeders being able to hold back snakes in case something goes wrong, but that should be only one factor in determining who you select to do business with. If I found a small breeder selling a killer morph I was looking for, say a reduced clown, it might not matter to me if the snake was sexed right or not. I might want to get the genetics and work around the gender issue.

BTW, the questions you stated shouldn't be exclusive to small breeders, but to all breeders that you do business with. As I mentioned in my previous message, many people perceive certain breeders as "Big" when in fact they are either small or untrustworthy.

[arcane]

This seller is no "breeder".

-adam

Yet that is what they have called themselves. No regulation and all that.

[SPJ]

Finally done with this garbage.

I am keeping the female not paying any extra or giving any offspring away so it worked out. I guess sending links to someone had an impact on how they will conduct themselves from now on.

I will say that justin case you see a dalbert ad in Ohio, be cautious since it might not be what you expected.

[Nate]

Glad to hear the nightmare is over.

[recycling goddess]

I agree that the breeder should make it right. I would tell the breeder. you sent me this snake as the one I paid for you want to send me a different one then you pay to have this one shipped back to you and send me the right age snake other wise consider this my snake and your stupid tax. THE BREEDER NEEDS TO BE THE ONE TO MAKE IT RIGHT! NOT THE CUSTOMER.

I agree there has been alot of this "Tuff luck" to the breeders for miss sexing. Lets flip this coin over and look at what would happen if the Breeder had the tuff luck state of mind. You pay for a Female 06 Het Pied (1300 - 1500).Now you get your new female home and low and behold its a male! How many of you would just walk away and be happy. NONE. Why? because now its you that has taken the $800.00 hit and not the faceless breeder. Now you call the breeder to make things right and you get the tough luck speach. Your told to send the male back at your charge and now wait for a male to come available. Not one thread or reply on this sight would read. "I would keep the snake and avoid all the drama". It would be more like "Anyone know a good lawyer."

Yes the breeder should do all they can to help the customer and make things right. But the Tuff luck breeder state of mind is sad. And I think that if you want to keep the female then pay the man for it if you want the male the breeder should ship the female back (NO CHARGE) and send you a proper age, proper weight, Proper sex male (NO SHIPING CHARGE). If the breeder is a stand up guy this should not be a problem.

Just my two cents.

i'm confused... what exactly IS your opinion?

[Kizerk]

congrats on keeping the female

[HollyS]

Whew...I just started reading this thread and am so happy to read that you are keeping her and sending no money. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard!! What an idiot that breeder is! And honestly, if you were really going to send him money - I was gonna ask if you might want to send some my way too, since you're just giving it away! LOL Kudos to you, his mistake, and I cannot believe he had the "balls" hehe to ask for more money!

[tmlowe5704]

Whew...I just started reading this thread and am so happy to read that you are keeping her and sending no money. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard!! What an idiot that breeder is! And honestly, if you were really going to send him money - I was gonna ask if you might want to send some my way too, since you're just giving it away! LOL Kudos to you, his mistake, and I cannot believe he had the "balls" hehe to ask for more money!

not only this, but maybe it will teach him a lesson and not screw other people over